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There's also a massive undervaluing of the naturally occurring fungal network that exists between the trees. The mushrooms we see on the ground are just the rep

by joecot 5y ago

There's also a massive undervaluing of the naturally occurring fungal network that exists between the trees. The mushrooms we see on the ground are just the reproductive organs. If you dig into the ground (and you've probably seen this many times if you've dug a hole near vegetation), there's tons of white fungal strands that connect between the tree roots. They absorb or release moisture, they transfer nutrients back and forth to the tree roots. There isn't a ton of research on it currently, but I'd bet my hat that the lack of that natural fungal network between trees just planted in rows is why planted forests rarely take hold. Same as there's so much focus on how to capture carbon out of the air while we pump megatons in every year, it's very silly how much focus there is on replanting forests instead of just ... not cutting them down.

millzlane 5y ago
Funny anecdote cannabis cultivators have for a long time been using mycorrhizae. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza
bradleyjg 5y ago
Not cutting forests down doesn’t provide sufficient opportunities for people to do things. At best you get a handful of people patrolling and maybe a small non profit with a speaker or two peacocking around. Whereas planting carbon capture forests provides tons of opportunities for people to do things, be involved, make money, build an identity, puff themselves up. Always look at incentives, not outcomes.
- swader999 5y ago
  Planting trees doesn't puff you up. It breaks you down literally. Tendinitis, back pain, muscle loss. You get PTSD, you wake up years later in a cold sweat from the nightmares. And the bugs...
  - afarrell 5y ago
    Is this a consequence of planting trees or of working at a breakneck pace for an abusive employer?
    - swader999 5y ago
      It's the consequence of being paid by the tree, instead of by the hour. It's the best way to do it but it does take its toll.
      - afarrell 5y ago
        If the “best” way to do it is via a method which would discourage us from trying at all, we should change the definition of “best” to one that does not result in PTSD.
        swader999 5y ago
        Well it's a go at your own pace sort of thing. Entirely self inflicted.
- sul_tasto 5y ago
  My son is in the boy scouts. A few years ago we met a man who had planted trees on a barren hill for his eagle project. He went back 30 years later and saw that that hill was now completely reforested. He was so inspired that he went around giving demonstrations to young scouts to try and get them interested in ecology.
  - bradleyjg 5y ago
    Is this anecdote really to the contrary of what I said? You’ve told me all about how excited this person is about seeing the result, not anything about whether or not it was the optimal action to take 30 years ago. It’s just human nature. There’s no way to fight it. Best to try to use it instead.
    - sul_tasto 5y ago
      Not at all. I was just giving a concrete example from my own experience to substantiate your point.
robbedpeter 5y ago
I agree, 1000% Having mister bottles with spore solutions to inoculate places where the seeds are planted could be a good solution. This would also reduce deadwood, increase the growth rate of the trees, retain water, and anchor more diverse ecosystems. Mushrooms have to be part of the solution. Identifying the various types of mushroom species in local healthy forest should provide a guideline for what's sprayed with the seeds. Blended suspensions of mycelium could be the best way of inoculation, but spores would definitely be better than nothing. Wildflowers, lichens, and other flora should also be a part, based on the local ecosystems. Monoculture or insufficient diversity could result in making things worse, whereas healthy samples represent local optima discovered by natural growth.
meristohm 5y ago
There’s enough research that, according to [0], British Columbia started to adjust forestry policy in the early 2000s. I enjoyed the audiobook for the interwoven story of parenting and personal growth along with the descriptions of how data was collected and shared. If you’d rather just read the research papers, see Dr. Simard’s publications [1]. [0] https://www.worldcat.org/title/finding-the-mother-tree-discovering-how-the-forest-is-wired-for-intelligence-and-healing/ https://www.worldcat.org/title/finding-the-mother-tree-disco... [1] https://forestry.ubc.ca/faculty-profile/suzanne-simard/ https://forestry.ubc.ca/faculty-profile/suzanne-simard/

by joecot 5y ago

millzlane 5y ago

Funny anecdote cannabis cultivators have for a long time been using mycorrhizae. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza

bradleyjg 5y ago

Not cutting forests down doesn’t provide sufficient opportunities for people to do things. At best you get a handful of people patrolling and maybe a small non profit with a speaker or two peacocking around. Whereas planting carbon capture forests provides tons of opportunities for people to do things, be involved, make money, build an identity, puff themselves up. Always look at incentives, not outcomes.

swader999 5y ago
Planting trees doesn't puff you up. It breaks you down literally. Tendinitis, back pain, muscle loss. You get PTSD, you wake up years later in a cold sweat from the nightmares. And the bugs...
- afarrell 5y ago
  Is this a consequence of planting trees or of working at a breakneck pace for an abusive employer?
  - swader999 5y ago
    It's the consequence of being paid by the tree, instead of by the hour. It's the best way to do it but it does take its toll.
    - afarrell 5y ago
      If the “best” way to do it is via a method which would discourage us from trying at all, we should change the definition of “best” to one that does not result in PTSD.
      - swader999 5y ago
        Well it's a go at your own pace sort of thing. Entirely self inflicted.
sul_tasto 5y ago
My son is in the boy scouts. A few years ago we met a man who had planted trees on a barren hill for his eagle project. He went back 30 years later and saw that that hill was now completely reforested. He was so inspired that he went around giving demonstrations to young scouts to try and get them interested in ecology.
- bradleyjg 5y ago
  Is this anecdote really to the contrary of what I said? You’ve told me all about how excited this person is about seeing the result, not anything about whether or not it was the optimal action to take 30 years ago. It’s just human nature. There’s no way to fight it. Best to try to use it instead.
  - sul_tasto 5y ago
    Not at all. I was just giving a concrete example from my own experience to substantiate your point.

robbedpeter 5y ago

I agree, 1000% Having mister bottles with spore solutions to inoculate places where the seeds are planted could be a good solution. This would also reduce deadwood, increase the growth rate of the trees, retain water, and anchor more diverse ecosystems. Mushrooms have to be part of the solution. Identifying the various types of mushroom species in local healthy forest should provide a guideline for what's sprayed with the seeds. Blended suspensions of mycelium could be the best way of inoculation, but spores would definitely be better than nothing. Wildflowers, lichens, and other flora should also be a part, based on the local ecosystems. Monoculture or insufficient diversity could result in making things worse, whereas healthy samples represent local optima discovered by natural growth.

meristohm 5y ago

There’s enough research that, according to [0], British Columbia started to adjust forestry policy in the early 2000s. I enjoyed the audiobook for the interwoven story of parenting and personal growth along with the descriptions of how data was collected and shared. If you’d rather just read the research papers, see Dr. Simard’s publications [1]. [0] https://www.worldcat.org/title/finding-the-mother-tree-discovering-how-the-forest-is-wired-for-intelligence-and-healing/ https://www.worldcat.org/title/finding-the-mother-tree-disco... [1] https://forestry.ubc.ca/faculty-profile/suzanne-simard/ https://forestry.ubc.ca/faculty-profile/suzanne-simard/