4 ms·

Lived in Tel-Aviv most of my adult life. Anyone who lived there long enough would tell you it was a matter of time until it "wins" this title. It also has awfu

by danr4 5y ago

Lived in Tel-Aviv most of my adult life. Anyone who lived there long enough would tell you it was a matter of time until it "wins" this title. It also has awful public transportation and terrible housing market. It's still one of the most fun cities in the world: Good weather, amazing night life and cuisine, decent job market, walkable, Gay+420 friendly I make a point to tell anyone who asks me about Israel that Tel-Aviv is the best city in the world for a vacation, but unless you're rich don't live there.

Waterluvian 5y ago
I’ve got to imagine there’s dozens of comparable cities and that humans are just hopelessly and wonderfully romantic about what they think is the best.
- danr4 5y ago
  I don't think "awful public transportation and terrible housing market" is wonderfully romantic. I'm very critical of the city and the country, but I've traveled across the US and most of western Europe, and have yet to find a comparable example. I don't know what's the secret sauce, but I think it's somewhat correlated to Israel's disproportionate success in tech - only the currency in the high risk high reward equation is fun, and is fueled by the Israeli "chutzpa" culture.
bogomipz 5y ago
I was curious about the fact that you characterized it as "has awful public transportation" and is also "walkable." Would you say if you live in the city center then the latter means the former doesn't matter too much then?
- danr4 5y ago
  That is somewhat true. The main issue is getting out of/into the city center. For example, getting to the big tech park of tel aviv (Ramat HaHayal) can take over an hour with a bus. So people take cars, but then there's so much traffic and lack of parking, it also takes an hour. Not much for someone who lives in the US but you can essentially drive half of Israel in an hour. It also makes visiting family , which is a big thing in Israeli culture and enabled by short distances, very annoying if you don't have a car. Scooters and e-bikes "solved" a lot of these troubles inside the city, but infrastructure hadn't caught up - not enough bike lanes make it very dangerous and injuries and even deaths are not uncommon. The upcoming newly built intercity tram should theoretically also help.
  - lozenge 5y ago
    Yes, it's walkable for your daily needs, and people normally do a lot of errands by walking as well. But not to work. Also, the lack of bus service during Shabbat means everybody needs a car just to go see their family every Friday, which then means you're a car owner and more tempted to create traffic the rest of the week. Since 2019, Tel Aviv mayor used a loophole in the Shabbat law - by offering busses for free they are able to run during Shabbat, but the area covered is small.
    - novok 5y ago
      Why hasn't tel-aviv made a metro yet? It's not the USA, there are many people from europe who have had a good experience with metros in their home countries, it's not poor and it's not Houston sized sprawling either.
      - names_are_hard 5y ago
        They're working on it. Excavation is indeed a pain, there's a lot of extra traffic recently due to the construction, and people complain about the noise too. But it's happening. I don't expect it to help much with the Shabbat issue, but politics are hard to predict so we'll see.
      - rsj_hn 5y ago
        I would imagine that excavation in Tel Aviv would be a huge pain, and previously there were a lot of security concerns with bunching people up in a metro. Perhaps now things have quieted down but the land has gotten very expensive.
        novok 5y ago
        Ah there is a metro plan! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_Metro
legerdemain 5y ago
How many years since a religiously motivated killing at a pride parade?
- koheripbal 5y ago
  I heard about one incident a few years ago. Were there more?
  - names_are_hard 5y ago
    There was a stabbing at the Jerusalem parade in 2015. I don't recall one ever happening in Tel Aviv but I might be mistaken. The two cities are separated by a distance of 65 kilometers, 5-10 degrees Celsius, and 200 years of cultural change.

by danr4 5y ago

Waterluvian 5y ago

I’ve got to imagine there’s dozens of comparable cities and that humans are just hopelessly and wonderfully romantic about what they think is the best.

danr4 5y ago
I don't think "awful public transportation and terrible housing market" is wonderfully romantic. I'm very critical of the city and the country, but I've traveled across the US and most of western Europe, and have yet to find a comparable example. I don't know what's the secret sauce, but I think it's somewhat correlated to Israel's disproportionate success in tech - only the currency in the high risk high reward equation is fun, and is fueled by the Israeli "chutzpa" culture.

bogomipz 5y ago

I was curious about the fact that you characterized it as "has awful public transportation" and is also "walkable." Would you say if you live in the city center then the latter means the former doesn't matter too much then?

danr4 5y ago
That is somewhat true. The main issue is getting out of/into the city center. For example, getting to the big tech park of tel aviv (Ramat HaHayal) can take over an hour with a bus. So people take cars, but then there's so much traffic and lack of parking, it also takes an hour. Not much for someone who lives in the US but you can essentially drive half of Israel in an hour. It also makes visiting family , which is a big thing in Israeli culture and enabled by short distances, very annoying if you don't have a car. Scooters and e-bikes "solved" a lot of these troubles inside the city, but infrastructure hadn't caught up - not enough bike lanes make it very dangerous and injuries and even deaths are not uncommon. The upcoming newly built intercity tram should theoretically also help.
- lozenge 5y ago
  Yes, it's walkable for your daily needs, and people normally do a lot of errands by walking as well. But not to work. Also, the lack of bus service during Shabbat means everybody needs a car just to go see their family every Friday, which then means you're a car owner and more tempted to create traffic the rest of the week. Since 2019, Tel Aviv mayor used a loophole in the Shabbat law - by offering busses for free they are able to run during Shabbat, but the area covered is small.
  - novok 5y ago
    Why hasn't tel-aviv made a metro yet? It's not the USA, there are many people from europe who have had a good experience with metros in their home countries, it's not poor and it's not Houston sized sprawling either.
    - names_are_hard 5y ago
      They're working on it. Excavation is indeed a pain, there's a lot of extra traffic recently due to the construction, and people complain about the noise too. But it's happening. I don't expect it to help much with the Shabbat issue, but politics are hard to predict so we'll see.
    - rsj_hn 5y ago
      I would imagine that excavation in Tel Aviv would be a huge pain, and previously there were a lot of security concerns with bunching people up in a metro. Perhaps now things have quieted down but the land has gotten very expensive.
      - novok 5y ago
        Ah there is a metro plan! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Aviv_Metro

legerdemain 5y ago

How many years since a religiously motivated killing at a pride parade?

koheripbal 5y ago
I heard about one incident a few years ago. Were there more?
- names_are_hard 5y ago
  There was a stabbing at the Jerusalem parade in 2015. I don't recall one ever happening in Tel Aviv but I might be mistaken. The two cities are separated by a distance of 65 kilometers, 5-10 degrees Celsius, and 200 years of cultural change.