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Everyone spies on everyone else. Reminder that France vacuumed up messages on Enrochat after deploying malware globally, and they have clear text messages from

Everyone spies on everyone else. Reminder that France vacuumed up messages on Enrochat after deploying malware globally, and they have clear text messages from users in any arbitrary country and have not disclosed what they will do with it or what they have. https://www.vice.com/en/article/3aza95/how-police-took-over-encrochat-hacked https://www.vice.com/en/article/3aza95/how-police-took-over-...

jacquesm 5y ago
The specific claim here is that EU countries spy on the US. I do not believe they have that capability, so if you have some proof that would come in handy.
- hugh-avherald 5y ago
  Just to clarify, you're asking for evidence of secret foreign intelligence operations? Establishing mere capability is pretty trivial: they have diplomats in the United States who can talk to people.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    We have plenty of proof of the US spying on allies in spite of those being secret foreign intelligence operations, there is afaik none whatsoever of say the Germans, the Belgians or the French doing something similar to the US.
    - jonnybgood 5y ago
      Spying is intelligence collection. There many ways to collect intelligence. Some completely innocuous like going to a defense trade show and taking pictures. Or using satellites to capture imagery of sensitive locations or developments [1]. Military attaches at embassies who observe their host country’s military developments and operations [2]. These are capabilities that every developed nation has access to. For them not to use it puts them at a disadvantage. You don’t think the French would love to have known about AUKUS submarine deal before it was made? It’s detrimental to not attempt to spy. The French were blindsided and I’m sure they don’t want to be blindsided again. [1] https://www.space.com/arianespace-soyuz-rocket-launches-cso-2-satellite https://www.space.com/arianespace-soyuz-rocket-launches-cso-... [2] https://franceintheus.org/spip.php?article10460 https://franceintheus.org/spip.php?article10460
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Desire does not equate capability.
- GordonS 5y ago
  Aside from capability, the relationship between the US and European countries is so biased towards the US that, politically, I just don't think they'd risk it. The US spies on everyone because they can, and because they have prepared to do basically anything they think might be in their interests; when Germany discovers the US spying on them, what can they really do about it? Whereas if it was the other way, all hell would break loose.

jacquesm 5y ago

The specific claim here is that EU countries spy on the US. I do not believe they have that capability, so if you have some proof that would come in handy.

hugh-avherald 5y ago
Just to clarify, you're asking for evidence of secret foreign intelligence operations? Establishing mere capability is pretty trivial: they have diplomats in the United States who can talk to people.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  We have plenty of proof of the US spying on allies in spite of those being secret foreign intelligence operations, there is afaik none whatsoever of say the Germans, the Belgians or the French doing something similar to the US.
  - jonnybgood 5y ago
    Spying is intelligence collection. There many ways to collect intelligence. Some completely innocuous like going to a defense trade show and taking pictures. Or using satellites to capture imagery of sensitive locations or developments [1]. Military attaches at embassies who observe their host country’s military developments and operations [2]. These are capabilities that every developed nation has access to. For them not to use it puts them at a disadvantage. You don’t think the French would love to have known about AUKUS submarine deal before it was made? It’s detrimental to not attempt to spy. The French were blindsided and I’m sure they don’t want to be blindsided again. [1] https://www.space.com/arianespace-soyuz-rocket-launches-cso-2-satellite https://www.space.com/arianespace-soyuz-rocket-launches-cso-... [2] https://franceintheus.org/spip.php?article10460 https://franceintheus.org/spip.php?article10460
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Desire does not equate capability.
GordonS 5y ago
Aside from capability, the relationship between the US and European countries is so biased towards the US that, politically, I just don't think they'd risk it. The US spies on everyone because they can, and because they have prepared to do basically anything they think might be in their interests; when Germany discovers the US spying on them, what can they really do about it? Whereas if it was the other way, all hell would break loose.