8 ms·

If this was a Russian/Iranian/Chinese company, we'd already have a news conference by the US DoS, declaring sanctions, freezing assets, and calling for an inter

If this was a Russian/Iranian/Chinese company, we'd already have a news conference by the US DoS, declaring sanctions, freezing assets, and calling for an international coalition to contain the rogue state that's threatening world peace. But this is a Israeli company, so it's just another "scandal" that scrolls trough the news feed, it will be forgotten by next week, to be completely memory holed by next year.

sizzle 5y ago
Can you explain why that is for us who aren’t well versed in geopolitical issues.
- spiznnx 5y ago
  Israel is an ally of the United States.
  - wyager 5y ago
    Many in power even go so far as to refer to Israel as the US's "greatest ally". https://zeldin.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/standing-our-greatest-ally-israel https://zeldin.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/standin... https://www.toomey.senate.gov/about/issues/israel-and-the-middle-east https://www.toomey.senate.gov/about/issues/israel-and-the-mi... https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/ https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/
  - technobabbler 5y ago
    "Ally" is probably too weak a word for the relationship we have with Israel. Probably no other country has this much influence on our politics. Not even the UK or Canada, who we share close cultural and linguistic bonds with. Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chinese in the case of Taiwan). But they also cause us to have more enemies than we otherwise would. In an open letter, Bin Laden specifically called out our support for Israel as one of their justifications behind 9/11. Spying between allies is a relatively normal thing, but when someone screws up and lets the public see it happen, usually there is at least some mild chiding. Israel doesn't even get that tsk tsk because of how much influence they have. Also, Israel has a very effective propaganda machine that purposely tries to paint any criticism of Israeli policy as anti-semitism. It's hard for our politicians to openly discuss them without risking their ire, and that of many influential Jewish Americans, and the powerful AIPAC lobby. Frankly, Israel has us by the balls. Less an ally and more a dominatrix.
    - momenti 5y ago
      The comparison is also flawed in that Korea at least makes cheap and good stuff.
      - technobabbler 5y ago
        Israel should learn that lesson. The way to American hearts is through our phones! Worked for Nokia and Samsung.
        momenti 5y ago
        I think they lack talent to really do it competitively. Korea has crazy amounts of cheap talent!
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > "Ally" is probably too weak a word for the relationship we have with Israel. The word is "client"; it's just people are used to using it with applying to the other side of a relation with the US, not the US side.
    - LAC-Tech 5y ago
      The Taiwan analogy is pretty flawed here. > Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chinese in the case of Taiwan). Is 'separation' a euphemism for 'preventing invasion'? Because threat of that is #1 thing keeping cross-strait relations tense. Mainland China could easily offer Taiwan a better deal than they get by being closely aligned with the US. Their reluctance to do so keeps US influence in the region, and after a while one can't help if it's deliberate. Also Israel gets a much better deal than Taiwan. The US gives military aid to Israel, where as Taiwan has to petition the US government - their only significant supplier - for the right to even buy weapons. Better hardware too, despite Israels poor track record in passing US military tech to China.
      - technobabbler 5y ago
  - FjgdymdjttdjG 5y ago
    They were an ally too in 1967 when they bombed the USS Liberty, killing 31, injuring hundreds, then covering it up. The history is so sullied at this point that it's all just an anti-semitic plot, a conspiracy theory. https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_did_israel_attack_uss_liberty_319.html https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_di...
- webkike 5y ago
  Israel is a US ally
  - noah_buddy 5y ago
    Can I ask what your name means? I thought this was a troll account at first glance from the topic matter and your alias but you look like an earnest poster, hence my confusion.
- jacobolus 5y ago
  Israel is a third rail in US politics. One significant faction of the GOP is millenarian evangelical Christians who (a) believe the Israeli state is a necessary precursor to armageddon and (b) have spent the past 2 decades trying to conflate “Muslim” with “terrorist”. The Democratic party includes as part of its coalition many American Jews who, despite frustration with the human rights abuses of the Israeli government, feel a strong connection with Israel as a symbolic homeland and are worried that criticism of Israel will lead to broader antisemitism. The US intelligence/defense establishment has strong ties to Israel, the US shares intelligence with Israel, and US firms make a lot of money selling weapons to Israel (a substantial part bought with US tax money). Israel has been the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid since World War II.
  - seniorivn 5y ago
    wow, even if you are a proud tinfoil hat wearer you should learn a way to explain your positions in a factual provable way without any attempts to read anyone's minds or guess anyone's motivations that would be much more effective
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - webmaven 5y ago
    > One significant faction of the GOP is millenarian evangelical Christians who (a) believe the Israeli state is a necessary precursor to armageddon and (b) have spent the past 2 decades trying to conflate “Muslim” with “terrorist”. Prior to that, during the Cold War Israel was the US ally surrounded by Soviet client states, so opposing the Godless Commies (whether the important part was "Godless" or "Commies" depended on the audience) was also quite popular.
  - foolfoolz 5y ago
    this angle seems really out dated. the us alliance with israel is not about religious reasons. israel is the one democratic state in a region that mostly has our enemies. israel is a military power. we have strategic interests in maintaining the middle east political bloc imagine if this headline read france instead. we would react similarly
- wildrhythms 5y ago
  Look up which 2 countries consistently vote to continue enforcing Cold War era sanctions on Cuba.
- DSingularity 5y ago
  It’s not purely geopolitical but I think the top 3 factors for this: 1, the most powerful political organization in the US is AIPAC. More powerful than any other lobbyist and can tip the scales in almost any election. 2, the services provided by Israel to support US-backed dictatorships in the Middle East (eg the NSO group) 3, the military industrial complex loves the Israeli customer because they are dependable, repeating customers (Israel has been bombing the Palestinians and its regional neighbors for decades now)
  - playguardin 5y ago
    Based
  - drc500free 5y ago
    Could you provide a source for AIPAC being the most powerful political organization in the US? That seems surprising given that they spend a fraction of what other lobbying groups do. How is that measured?
    - DSingularity 5y ago
      Its probably more appropriate to say that they are one of the most powerful lobbyist groups simply because it’s hard to quantify and compare power.
    - tthun 5y ago
      > That seems surprising given that they spend a fraction Probably by design to “seem to” spend only small amount of money, so that even people who know how to search on google for key facts won’t immediately see their outsized influence. From an nytimes article [0] on this topic and lot of anecdotes on fall outs from taking policy positions against israel (not anti-Semitic) “ Unlike the National Rifle Association, the Human Rights Campaign and other powerful grass-roots advocacy organizations, Aipac, which is bipartisan, does not endorse or raise money for candidates. But its members do, with the organization’s strong encouragement.” “Traveling to Israel on a trip financed by Aipac’s education arm is practically a rite of passage for freshman members of Congress.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/aipac-congress-democrats.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/aipac-congres...
- hanniabu 5y ago
  Rule #1: Don't criticize Israel Rule #2: If anybody criticizes Israel you attack them and call them antisemitic
nautilus12 5y ago
False. USA doesn't take cyber attacks from Russia and China seriously at all aside from lip service. In all reality USA should be considered in an actual state of war with these countries based on their previous actions.
sbelskie 5y ago
Were there immediate press conferences or sanctions for the Solarwinds stuff? Honest question. I don’t remember.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  The Solarwinds stuff was so obviously the fault of Solarwinds that making a big deal out of it would be an own-goal.
- freeflight 5y ago
  Afaik all attributions to Russia about that came from "unnamed government sources/experts" in media, don't think the US accused Russia of that out in the open and "officially".
2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
> In a remarkable breach with Israel over one of its most successful technology companies, the Biden administration on Wednesday blacklisted the NSO Group, saying the company knowingly supplied spyware that has been used by foreign governments to “maliciously target” the phones of dissidents, human rights activists, journalists and others.
- zionic 5y ago
  This is surprising, considering his entire cabinet has Israeli citizenship. He’s opening the door to reprisal against his inner circle, so he must feel like he has no choice.
neximo64 5y ago
Well Israel is a US ally that serves US interests, namely it is by the Suez canal one of the busiest shipping lanes on earth. One could argue that there is a lot of political support for Israel in the US but it really comes down to geopolitical interest. The others, Russia is a US adversary as it seeks to challenge the US order without Russia in it. Iran is a geopolitical adversary, simply because Saudi Arabia is a US ally - enemy of enemy is friend. China is on that fine line between adversary and competitor but definitely not an ally. So of course its not a big deal. The US knows Israel needs US support to maintain security along the canal and broader med.
- xwolfi 5y ago
  But that whole definition of friends of foe you've given is ridiculous though. Russia is trying to resist US bullying and european expansionism near its border, Iran revolted against US-selected dictators, and China, the largest country on Earth, doesnt even understand why the US makes any rule in the first place. I think this inflated US self importance is one of the biggest danger to world stability. This way to see everyone not immediately showing its ass to be sodomized to be an "adversary" is insane. Israel by your definition very much became an adversary: they wanted to monitor and control US elected officials to guide policies towards its interest. I dont think the "Suez canal" should be more important than the soul of the american democracy, but that, you dont seem to care as much about :D
  - neximo64 5y ago
    This explanation is very poor. At their core countries have no feelings, there is no ill will or true adversary. There is a current interest for your people and economy. It is very much in Russia's interest to annex Ukraine, it has nothing to do with US bullying, etc. If Saudi Arabia were not a US ally the Iranian government would find no reason to really look at the US as a foe. Iran and Saudi Arabia have a balance of power to dominate the middle east and Saudi Arabia (with the help of the US) stands in the way of that, and that is why Russia helps Iran to counterbalance that. Historically Iran and Russia do not have alignment in their interests otherwise. I suspect you see the world this way because you basically 'stand where you sit', but you have to look at it from the point of view of the other side and where people stand where they sit there too. I.e if you were born & raised & were wealthy/vested etc on the other side would your opinion flip. Your opinion should flip, and then of course with both opinions against each other it ends up becoming about having more power, having alliances and playing cards right.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
bawolff 5y ago
If it served US interests to demonize russia, sure. However the more likely thing is they would keep it on the phone and feed false intel.

sizzle 5y ago

Can you explain why that is for us who aren’t well versed in geopolitical issues.

spiznnx 5y ago
Israel is an ally of the United States.
- wyager 5y ago
  Many in power even go so far as to refer to Israel as the US's "greatest ally". https://zeldin.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/standing-our-greatest-ally-israel https://zeldin.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/standin... https://www.toomey.senate.gov/about/issues/israel-and-the-middle-east https://www.toomey.senate.gov/about/issues/israel-and-the-mi... https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/ https://www.state.gov/u-s-relations-with-israel/
- technobabbler 5y ago
  "Ally" is probably too weak a word for the relationship we have with Israel. Probably no other country has this much influence on our politics. Not even the UK or Canada, who we share close cultural and linguistic bonds with. Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chinese in the case of Taiwan). But they also cause us to have more enemies than we otherwise would. In an open letter, Bin Laden specifically called out our support for Israel as one of their justifications behind 9/11. Spying between allies is a relatively normal thing, but when someone screws up and lets the public see it happen, usually there is at least some mild chiding. Israel doesn't even get that tsk tsk because of how much influence they have. Also, Israel has a very effective propaganda machine that purposely tries to paint any criticism of Israeli policy as anti-semitism. It's hard for our politicians to openly discuss them without risking their ire, and that of many influential Jewish Americans, and the powerful AIPAC lobby. Frankly, Israel has us by the balls. Less an ally and more a dominatrix.
  - momenti 5y ago
    The comparison is also flawed in that Korea at least makes cheap and good stuff.
    - technobabbler 5y ago
      Israel should learn that lesson. The way to American hearts is through our phones! Worked for Nokia and Samsung.
      - momenti 5y ago
        I think they lack talent to really do it competitively. Korea has crazy amounts of cheap talent!
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > "Ally" is probably too weak a word for the relationship we have with Israel. The word is "client"; it's just people are used to using it with applying to the other side of a relation with the US, not the US side.
  - LAC-Tech 5y ago
    The Taiwan analogy is pretty flawed here. > Israel is like the Taiwan of the Middle East, meaning it's a useful partner to us in terms of maintaining a separation between the West and some perceived enemy (Muslims in this case, the Chinese in the case of Taiwan). Is 'separation' a euphemism for 'preventing invasion'? Because threat of that is #1 thing keeping cross-strait relations tense. Mainland China could easily offer Taiwan a better deal than they get by being closely aligned with the US. Their reluctance to do so keeps US influence in the region, and after a while one can't help if it's deliberate. Also Israel gets a much better deal than Taiwan. The US gives military aid to Israel, where as Taiwan has to petition the US government - their only significant supplier - for the right to even buy weapons. Better hardware too, despite Israels poor track record in passing US military tech to China.
    - technobabbler 5y ago
- FjgdymdjttdjG 5y ago
  They were an ally too in 1967 when they bombed the USS Liberty, killing 31, injuring hundreds, then covering it up. The history is so sullied at this point that it's all just an anti-semitic plot, a conspiracy theory. https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_did_israel_attack_uss_liberty_319.html https://www.realclearhistory.com/historiat/2018/06/06/why_di...
webkike 5y ago
Israel is a US ally
- noah_buddy 5y ago
  Can I ask what your name means? I thought this was a troll account at first glance from the topic matter and your alias but you look like an earnest poster, hence my confusion.
jacobolus 5y ago
Israel is a third rail in US politics. One significant faction of the GOP is millenarian evangelical Christians who (a) believe the Israeli state is a necessary precursor to armageddon and (b) have spent the past 2 decades trying to conflate “Muslim” with “terrorist”. The Democratic party includes as part of its coalition many American Jews who, despite frustration with the human rights abuses of the Israeli government, feel a strong connection with Israel as a symbolic homeland and are worried that criticism of Israel will lead to broader antisemitism. The US intelligence/defense establishment has strong ties to Israel, the US shares intelligence with Israel, and US firms make a lot of money selling weapons to Israel (a substantial part bought with US tax money). Israel has been the largest recipient of U.S. foreign aid since World War II.
- seniorivn 5y ago
  wow, even if you are a proud tinfoil hat wearer you should learn a way to explain your positions in a factual provable way without any attempts to read anyone's minds or guess anyone's motivations that would be much more effective
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- webmaven 5y ago
  > One significant faction of the GOP is millenarian evangelical Christians who (a) believe the Israeli state is a necessary precursor to armageddon and (b) have spent the past 2 decades trying to conflate “Muslim” with “terrorist”. Prior to that, during the Cold War Israel was the US ally surrounded by Soviet client states, so opposing the Godless Commies (whether the important part was "Godless" or "Commies" depended on the audience) was also quite popular.
- foolfoolz 5y ago
  this angle seems really out dated. the us alliance with israel is not about religious reasons. israel is the one democratic state in a region that mostly has our enemies. israel is a military power. we have strategic interests in maintaining the middle east political bloc imagine if this headline read france instead. we would react similarly
wildrhythms 5y ago
Look up which 2 countries consistently vote to continue enforcing Cold War era sanctions on Cuba.
DSingularity 5y ago
It’s not purely geopolitical but I think the top 3 factors for this: 1, the most powerful political organization in the US is AIPAC. More powerful than any other lobbyist and can tip the scales in almost any election. 2, the services provided by Israel to support US-backed dictatorships in the Middle East (eg the NSO group) 3, the military industrial complex loves the Israeli customer because they are dependable, repeating customers (Israel has been bombing the Palestinians and its regional neighbors for decades now)
- playguardin 5y ago
  Based
- drc500free 5y ago
  Could you provide a source for AIPAC being the most powerful political organization in the US? That seems surprising given that they spend a fraction of what other lobbying groups do. How is that measured?
  - DSingularity 5y ago
    Its probably more appropriate to say that they are one of the most powerful lobbyist groups simply because it’s hard to quantify and compare power.
  - tthun 5y ago
    > That seems surprising given that they spend a fraction Probably by design to “seem to” spend only small amount of money, so that even people who know how to search on google for key facts won’t immediately see their outsized influence. From an nytimes article [0] on this topic and lot of anecdotes on fall outs from taking policy positions against israel (not anti-Semitic) “ Unlike the National Rifle Association, the Human Rights Campaign and other powerful grass-roots advocacy organizations, Aipac, which is bipartisan, does not endorse or raise money for candidates. But its members do, with the organization’s strong encouragement.” “Traveling to Israel on a trip financed by Aipac’s education arm is practically a rite of passage for freshman members of Congress.” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/aipac-congress-democrats.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/04/us/politics/aipac-congres...
hanniabu 5y ago
Rule #1: Don't criticize Israel Rule #2: If anybody criticizes Israel you attack them and call them antisemitic

nautilus12 5y ago

False. USA doesn't take cyber attacks from Russia and China seriously at all aside from lip service. In all reality USA should be considered in an actual state of war with these countries based on their previous actions.

sbelskie 5y ago

Were there immediate press conferences or sanctions for the Solarwinds stuff? Honest question. I don’t remember.

whatshisface 5y ago
The Solarwinds stuff was so obviously the fault of Solarwinds that making a big deal out of it would be an own-goal.
freeflight 5y ago
Afaik all attributions to Russia about that came from "unnamed government sources/experts" in media, don't think the US accused Russia of that out in the open and "officially".

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

> In a remarkable breach with Israel over one of its most successful technology companies, the Biden administration on Wednesday blacklisted the NSO Group, saying the company knowingly supplied spyware that has been used by foreign governments to “maliciously target” the phones of dissidents, human rights activists, journalists and others.

zionic 5y ago
This is surprising, considering his entire cabinet has Israeli citizenship. He’s opening the door to reprisal against his inner circle, so he must feel like he has no choice.

neximo64 5y ago

Well Israel is a US ally that serves US interests, namely it is by the Suez canal one of the busiest shipping lanes on earth. One could argue that there is a lot of political support for Israel in the US but it really comes down to geopolitical interest. The others, Russia is a US adversary as it seeks to challenge the US order without Russia in it. Iran is a geopolitical adversary, simply because Saudi Arabia is a US ally - enemy of enemy is friend. China is on that fine line between adversary and competitor but definitely not an ally. So of course its not a big deal. The US knows Israel needs US support to maintain security along the canal and broader med.

xwolfi 5y ago
But that whole definition of friends of foe you've given is ridiculous though. Russia is trying to resist US bullying and european expansionism near its border, Iran revolted against US-selected dictators, and China, the largest country on Earth, doesnt even understand why the US makes any rule in the first place. I think this inflated US self importance is one of the biggest danger to world stability. This way to see everyone not immediately showing its ass to be sodomized to be an "adversary" is insane. Israel by your definition very much became an adversary: they wanted to monitor and control US elected officials to guide policies towards its interest. I dont think the "Suez canal" should be more important than the soul of the american democracy, but that, you dont seem to care as much about :D
- neximo64 5y ago
  This explanation is very poor. At their core countries have no feelings, there is no ill will or true adversary. There is a current interest for your people and economy. It is very much in Russia's interest to annex Ukraine, it has nothing to do with US bullying, etc. If Saudi Arabia were not a US ally the Iranian government would find no reason to really look at the US as a foe. Iran and Saudi Arabia have a balance of power to dominate the middle east and Saudi Arabia (with the help of the US) stands in the way of that, and that is why Russia helps Iran to counterbalance that. Historically Iran and Russia do not have alignment in their interests otherwise. I suspect you see the world this way because you basically 'stand where you sit', but you have to look at it from the point of view of the other side and where people stand where they sit there too. I.e if you were born & raised & were wealthy/vested etc on the other side would your opinion flip. Your opinion should flip, and then of course with both opinions against each other it ends up becoming about having more power, having alliances and playing cards right.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

bawolff 5y ago

If it served US interests to demonize russia, sure. However the more likely thing is they would keep it on the phone and feed false intel.