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It's very interesting to ask what's gained by seeing downvotes in addition to upvotes, and whether that differs based on whether the content is video or comment

by r00fus 5y ago

It's very interesting to ask what's gained by seeing downvotes in addition to upvotes, and whether that differs based on whether the content is video or commentary. HN comments can still be downvoted (if you have enough karma) so arguably you can still get signal quality from the sum of votes. Especially since in most cases, you can simply comment instead of downvote.

skissane 5y ago
> HN comments can still be downvoted (if you have enough karma) so arguably you can still get signal quality from the sum of votes. Downvotes on HN comments aren't a pure quality signal. HN's culture is that downvoting something just because you disagree with it is perfectly cromulent behaviour, as established by PG himself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of that decision, but I didn't start this site.
- Strom 5y ago
  It might be cromulent to some, but in my experience it is not widespread. Definitely done at a much lower rate than other places like reddit. Main indicator of this is that on HN it's not uncommon to see an upvoted comment that has almost exclusively argumentative replies. However on reddit when I see a comment with so many disagreeing responses, it's well into the negative. Also, at a sample point of one, I make an effort to never downvote because of disagreement. I don't behave that way on reddit. Something about herd mentality perhaps.
  - skissane 5y ago
    > Main indicator of this is that on HN it's not uncommon to see an upvoted comment that has almost exclusively argumentative replies It could be that people who agree upvote without replying, people who disagree reply to argue against it. HN discourages non-substantive replies; if you agree with everything someone says, it can be hard to generate a substantive reply to it. (In practice, occasional non-substantive agreeing replies are tolerated, but people who do it more than occasionally often encounter some pushback.)
  - r00fus 5y ago
    Venue, setting and audience definitely matters. On HN I get downvoted for being too inflammatory and I learn & adjust my posting. Other sites (subreddits or political commentary sites) I might get upvoted for the same.
- cbozeman 5y ago
  All the downvote - or upvote for that matter - does for me is tell me what the prevailing opinion is for people who likely have similar backgrounds to me, have had similar experiences as me, and who have similar attitudes as me. If my comments are highly upvoted, I've hit upon a truth or realization with which many people agree. If my comments are downvoted, I've also likely hit upon a truth or a realization, but one with which many people are deeply uncomfortable. It's up to my own powers of discernment and wisdom to determine if people are all wrong and the prevailing sentiment is incorrect, or if it's me who's out in left field and is significantly off-base. We will never engineer a button to press to give us this insight.

by r00fus 5y ago

skissane 5y ago

> HN comments can still be downvoted (if you have enough karma) so arguably you can still get signal quality from the sum of votes. Downvotes on HN comments aren't a pure quality signal. HN's culture is that downvoting something just because you disagree with it is perfectly cromulent behaviour, as established by PG himself: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=658691 Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of that decision, but I didn't start this site.

Strom 5y ago
It might be cromulent to some, but in my experience it is not widespread. Definitely done at a much lower rate than other places like reddit. Main indicator of this is that on HN it's not uncommon to see an upvoted comment that has almost exclusively argumentative replies. However on reddit when I see a comment with so many disagreeing responses, it's well into the negative. Also, at a sample point of one, I make an effort to never downvote because of disagreement. I don't behave that way on reddit. Something about herd mentality perhaps.
- skissane 5y ago
  > Main indicator of this is that on HN it's not uncommon to see an upvoted comment that has almost exclusively argumentative replies It could be that people who agree upvote without replying, people who disagree reply to argue against it. HN discourages non-substantive replies; if you agree with everything someone says, it can be hard to generate a substantive reply to it. (In practice, occasional non-substantive agreeing replies are tolerated, but people who do it more than occasionally often encounter some pushback.)
- r00fus 5y ago
  Venue, setting and audience definitely matters. On HN I get downvoted for being too inflammatory and I learn & adjust my posting. Other sites (subreddits or political commentary sites) I might get upvoted for the same.
cbozeman 5y ago
All the downvote - or upvote for that matter - does for me is tell me what the prevailing opinion is for people who likely have similar backgrounds to me, have had similar experiences as me, and who have similar attitudes as me. If my comments are highly upvoted, I've hit upon a truth or realization with which many people agree. If my comments are downvoted, I've also likely hit upon a truth or a realization, but one with which many people are deeply uncomfortable. It's up to my own powers of discernment and wisdom to determine if people are all wrong and the prevailing sentiment is incorrect, or if it's me who's out in left field and is significantly off-base. We will never engineer a button to press to give us this insight.