5 ms·

I think that remains to be seen.

by Eelongate 5y ago

frupert52 5y ago
Only if you can find their remains
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> that remains to be seen Oh man, for purely comical purposes I would love to see NSO actually believe that.
- Eelongate 5y ago
  In principle, America could drop Hellfire R9X sword missiles through the cars of every NSO employee. In practice, would American politicians have the nerve to go to war with NSO, when NSO probably infected all their phones years ago? How much dirt do they have on American politicians?
  - rapind 5y ago
    Really, all you need is a subtle suggestion to the Israeli government that the hundred billions or so dollars they receive from the US every year might be impacted by continued NSO bad publicity.
    - gdrift 5y ago
      > hundred billions or so dollars ... every year More like ~$4B (out of a total foreign aid of ~$50B annually). https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the...
    - poisonarena 5y ago
      that number is way off, and the money they "receive", is specifically for use with US defence contracts and deals.. Its like Disneyland giving you Disneydollars.. You can only spend them at Disneyland.. It is a way for the US military-industrial complex to stay afloat.. And it is a drop in the bucket for Israeli Defence spending, and would make little difference if they took it out.
      - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
        In fairness, the net result of this exchange is still something like, "Disneyland gives you a free hamburger." And by hamburger I mean "tank" or something. Well that, and the hamburger vendor buys a big house in the DC metro area. And everybody else's ticket prices go up a little. But still, draw a control volume, and it's just hamburgers flowing out.
      - tibyat 5y ago
        It somehow keeps the US military industrial complex afloat while being a drop in the bucket for Israel?? You may be biased. Threat of removing 20% of Israeli defense budget [1] would hypothetically be plenty enough to apply serious political pressure, and thats just the money, forgetting the political support and the deterrent US support provides them. [1] https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the...
      - rapind 5y ago
        Pretty sure it's not a "drop in the bucket" (somewhere around 20% I read?). There's also a massive opportunity cost when you consider the profit to be made from an arms race in the middle east should the US treat all countries in the region equal when it comes to arms sales. Pretty sure that would net far more for your military industrial complex than the long standing preferential Israeli treatment. It would also obviously be disastrous for Israel, so that's some serious leverage. (Note: In case you think I'm promoting this idea, I actually believe ANY arms sales to the region, Israel included, has been a horrible policy). The US and Israel are in bed together for better or worse. It's actually really embarrassing that Israel has allowed NSO Group to operate at this level, and influential US politicians could destroy NSO Group in a heartbeat if they actually wanted to.
        poisonarena 5y ago
        >(somewhere around 20% I read?). its closer to 3% Again the US provides comparable military aid to Egypt and Pakistan too.. NSO is not the Israeli government
  - vorpalhex 5y ago
    So you think because NSO breached a few state department phones that they have the deep dirt on every sitting congress member?
    - sumedh 5y ago
      > that they have the deep dirt on every sitting congress member Not all but do you really believe that the NSO group wont have some blackmail material on at least some US politicians?
    - Eelongate 5y ago
      You think the iceberg is coincidentally only as deep as what we've presently heard? That we didn't have the full story yesterday, but today we definitely do? Well I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.
      - boomboomsubban 5y ago
        >You think the iceberg is coincidentally only as deep as what we've presently heard? No, but I think the US intelligence agencies are fully aware of where they're hiding the iceberg and could destroy it before it rises to the surface.
      - vorpalhex 5y ago
        Well how do you know the NSO hasn't replaced the sitting US President with a very convincing android? I mean, they are a very skilled set of engineers. You seem to grant them being able to hold onto very powerful secrets and use them for active blackmail. You even believe they've been operating actively against the US government for several years. If they can do all that, then replacing the sitting US president with a very convincing android isn't much harder! It is just as likely as the situation you propose.
        tata71 5y ago
        Watch the movie "Snowden" if you're actually in disbelief and not disinformation.
  - justin66 5y ago
    > In principle, America could drop Hellfire R9X sword missiles through the cars of every NSO employee. The next step isn't to blow them up, the next step is to sue them. I just assume the IDF and Shin Bet would like to be the only ones who blow up civilians in Israel, but I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever.
    - sampo 5y ago
      > I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever. If an American company would get caught doing the similar, would US allow extradition request of those people to some other country?
      - justin66 5y ago
        …if they were presented with evidence that crimes were committed? This is what extradition treaties are for. The specific laws involved and the evidence matter a lot.
    - ryanlol 5y ago
      > I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever. Except the really obvious detail that most normal countries won’t extradite their citizens? Israel loosened up their laws on this a bit after the Sheinbein affair, but extraditing resident-citizens remains a rather unlikely prospect.
      - justin66 5y ago
        > Except the really obvious detail that most normal countries won’t extradite their citizens? I can’t even guess why you’d believe that. Participating in extradition treaties is the norm, not the exception.
        5y ago

I think that remains to be seen.

frupert52 5y ago

Only if you can find their remains

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> that remains to be seen Oh man, for purely comical purposes I would love to see NSO actually believe that.

Eelongate 5y ago
In principle, America could drop Hellfire R9X sword missiles through the cars of every NSO employee. In practice, would American politicians have the nerve to go to war with NSO, when NSO probably infected all their phones years ago? How much dirt do they have on American politicians?
- rapind 5y ago
  Really, all you need is a subtle suggestion to the Israeli government that the hundred billions or so dollars they receive from the US every year might be impacted by continued NSO bad publicity.
  - gdrift 5y ago
    > hundred billions or so dollars ... every year More like ~$4B (out of a total foreign aid of ~$50B annually). https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the...
  - poisonarena 5y ago
    that number is way off, and the money they "receive", is specifically for use with US defence contracts and deals.. Its like Disneyland giving you Disneydollars.. You can only spend them at Disneyland.. It is a way for the US military-industrial complex to stay afloat.. And it is a drop in the bucket for Israeli Defence spending, and would make little difference if they took it out.
    - FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
      In fairness, the net result of this exchange is still something like, "Disneyland gives you a free hamburger." And by hamburger I mean "tank" or something. Well that, and the hamburger vendor buys a big house in the DC metro area. And everybody else's ticket prices go up a little. But still, draw a control volume, and it's just hamburgers flowing out.
    - tibyat 5y ago
      It somehow keeps the US military industrial complex afloat while being a drop in the bucket for Israel?? You may be biased. Threat of removing 20% of Israeli defense budget [1] would hypothetically be plenty enough to apply serious political pressure, and thats just the money, forgetting the political support and the deterrent US support provides them. [1] https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the-us-give-to-israel/ https://usafacts.org/articles/how-much-military-aid-does-the...
    - rapind 5y ago
      Pretty sure it's not a "drop in the bucket" (somewhere around 20% I read?). There's also a massive opportunity cost when you consider the profit to be made from an arms race in the middle east should the US treat all countries in the region equal when it comes to arms sales. Pretty sure that would net far more for your military industrial complex than the long standing preferential Israeli treatment. It would also obviously be disastrous for Israel, so that's some serious leverage. (Note: In case you think I'm promoting this idea, I actually believe ANY arms sales to the region, Israel included, has been a horrible policy). The US and Israel are in bed together for better or worse. It's actually really embarrassing that Israel has allowed NSO Group to operate at this level, and influential US politicians could destroy NSO Group in a heartbeat if they actually wanted to.
      - poisonarena 5y ago
        >(somewhere around 20% I read?). its closer to 3% Again the US provides comparable military aid to Egypt and Pakistan too.. NSO is not the Israeli government
- vorpalhex 5y ago
  So you think because NSO breached a few state department phones that they have the deep dirt on every sitting congress member?
  - sumedh 5y ago
    > that they have the deep dirt on every sitting congress member Not all but do you really believe that the NSO group wont have some blackmail material on at least some US politicians?
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    You think the iceberg is coincidentally only as deep as what we've presently heard? That we didn't have the full story yesterday, but today we definitely do? Well I hope you're right, but I don't think you are.
    - boomboomsubban 5y ago
      >You think the iceberg is coincidentally only as deep as what we've presently heard? No, but I think the US intelligence agencies are fully aware of where they're hiding the iceberg and could destroy it before it rises to the surface.
    - vorpalhex 5y ago
      Well how do you know the NSO hasn't replaced the sitting US President with a very convincing android? I mean, they are a very skilled set of engineers. You seem to grant them being able to hold onto very powerful secrets and use them for active blackmail. You even believe they've been operating actively against the US government for several years. If they can do all that, then replacing the sitting US president with a very convincing android isn't much harder! It is just as likely as the situation you propose.
      - tata71 5y ago
        Watch the movie "Snowden" if you're actually in disbelief and not disinformation.
- justin66 5y ago
  > In principle, America could drop Hellfire R9X sword missiles through the cars of every NSO employee. The next step isn't to blow them up, the next step is to sue them. I just assume the IDF and Shin Bet would like to be the only ones who blow up civilians in Israel, but I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever.
  - sampo 5y ago
    > I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever. If an American company would get caught doing the similar, would US allow extradition request of those people to some other country?
    - justin66 5y ago
      …if they were presented with evidence that crimes were committed? This is what extradition treaties are for. The specific laws involved and the evidence matter a lot.
  - ryanlol 5y ago
    > I can't think of a single reason why the Israeli government would oppose an extradition request if they were presented with evidence of cyber-whatever. Except the really obvious detail that most normal countries won’t extradite their citizens? Israel loosened up their laws on this a bit after the Sheinbein affair, but extraditing resident-citizens remains a rather unlikely prospect.
    - justin66 5y ago
      > Except the really obvious detail that most normal countries won’t extradite their citizens? I can’t even guess why you’d believe that. Participating in extradition treaties is the norm, not the exception.
      - 5y ago