4 ms·

What country does? Even the US has laws against libel, hate speech, etc.

by ywain 5y ago

d110af5ccf 5y ago
I believe libel in the US involves demonstrating actual harm. The only thing I'm aware of here that I would consider a true infringement of freedom of speech is our obscenity laws. SCOTUS has (sadly) upheld at least some of them.
hash872 5y ago
The US does not have laws against 'hate speech', this is completely incorrect. Libel is a civil matter, and the US is commonly described as having the highest bar to proving libel in the developed world
- ywain 5y ago
  Yeah, I was mistaken about hate speech laws, sorry about that. My point though was that all countries do restrict speech in _some_ manner (for perfectly valid reasons), and I don't understand this fascination with "free speech" as some sacred concept that must be either whole or completely useless.
finite_jest 5y ago
From Wikipedia: "The United States does not have hate speech laws, since the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that laws criminalizing hate speech violate the guarantee to freedom of speech contained in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution." [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hate_speech&oldid=1057298826#Hate_speech_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hate_speech&oldid...
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  Technically. In practice, you will get in trouble for saying certain things.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    Not in legal trouble. Socially, yes, of course there are views that will get you ostracized to some extent. But that's merely the consequence of freedom of association.
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      If you say, for example, “You live at [xyz accurate address], and I am going to kill you in 48 hours”, you are liable to get into legal trouble.
      - nybble41 5y ago
        If the threat is credible and imminent, yes. That's because killing people is obviously illegal, and those you threaten can reasonably take you at your word when you make a credible threat against them and respond accordingly to protect themselves. The speech is merely evidence of intent, not the crime itself. (Morally speaking, of course. Consult a local lawyer for legal advice applicable to your jurisdiction, as the law is not always moral or just.)

What country does? Even the US has laws against libel, hate speech, etc.

by ywain 5y ago

What country does? Even the US has laws against libel, hate speech, etc.

I believe libel in the US involves demonstrating actual harm. The only thing I'm aware of here that I would consider a true infringement of freedom of speech is our obscenity laws. SCOTUS has (sadly) upheld at least some of them.

hash872 5y ago

The US does not have laws against 'hate speech', this is completely incorrect. Libel is a civil matter, and the US is commonly described as having the highest bar to proving libel in the developed world

ywain 5y ago
Yeah, I was mistaken about hate speech laws, sorry about that. My point though was that all countries do restrict speech in _some_ manner (for perfectly valid reasons), and I don't understand this fascination with "free speech" as some sacred concept that must be either whole or completely useless.

finite_jest 5y ago

From Wikipedia: "The United States does not have hate speech laws, since the U.S. Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that laws criminalizing hate speech violate the guarantee to freedom of speech contained in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution." [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hate_speech&oldid=1057298826#Hate_speech_laws https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Hate_speech&oldid...

wizzwizz4 5y ago
Technically. In practice, you will get in trouble for saying certain things.
- int_19h 5y ago
  Not in legal trouble. Socially, yes, of course there are views that will get you ostracized to some extent. But that's merely the consequence of freedom of association.
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    If you say, for example, “You live at [xyz accurate address], and I am going to kill you in 48 hours”, you are liable to get into legal trouble.
    - nybble41 5y ago
      If the threat is credible and imminent, yes. That's because killing people is obviously illegal, and those you threaten can reasonably take you at your word when you make a credible threat against them and respond accordingly to protect themselves. The speech is merely evidence of intent, not the crime itself. (Morally speaking, of course. Consult a local lawyer for legal advice applicable to your jurisdiction, as the law is not always moral or just.)