8 ms·

Imagine all the dirt the NSA has on congress.

cwkoss 5y ago
Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Hiding this information is trading the wellbeing of the country for the NSA's own internal goals and power.
- gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
  Dangerously based and you’re-about-to-commit-suicide-with-two-gunshots-to-the-head pilled
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mcbutterbunz 5y ago
  > Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Depends on the dirt. Some of it might be private and personal stuff, such as infidelity. That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much.
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    The public's elected representatives being easily blackmailable is obviously of great concern to the public, I don't know why you're downplaying this.
    - OminousWeapons 5y ago
      Everyone has dirty laundry they would prefer not be aired, and if they don't then their friends, family, or partners do. I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office.
      - krapp 5y ago
        >I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Don't worry, you live in a world where a man with a well documented decades-long laundry list of scandals and faux-pas can brag on tape about how he can get away with molesting young women because of how rich he is and still get elected President. I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Maybe just the eponymous "dead girl or live boy," but then you have the Kennedys...
        snakeboy 5y ago
        I don't think "eponymous" is the word you meant there.
        krapp 5y ago
        You're probably right, but I'm too lazy to care.
        bawolff 5y ago
        A person with no reputation to lose is hard to blackmail. I don't think trump generalizes in this context.
        webmaven 5y ago
        > I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Well, in general anything that would get them prosecuted for a felony should be an effective stick. Add in a carrot and now they're on the hook for bribery too.
      - OneLeggedCat 5y ago
        > I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Well lucky you, we have the exact 100% polar opposite of that system currently. I think it would be fine to move toward it a little.
    - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
      Don't believe representatives are elected because of their integrity and their willingness to serve. They represent groups of interest. And being blackmailable is, in my opinion, a handy leash to keep them in check, for those groups which propose the candidates The public is not concerned with corruption until they feel affected by it.
      - javajosh 5y ago
        It sounds more like you're asserting that corruption has been redifined, because we expect elected officials to represent a group of interests... But this is quite circular. It would be better for us to maintain our high expectations of our leaders, even if those expectations are not currently being met. It doesn't mean that they cannot be met. It feels so damned gamed that I cannot imagine what a genuine political candidate would look like, a member of the public deciding, yes, I will run for office, and then speaking to their friends and neighbors about it, and submitting the paperwork to make it official. Can you imagine if that's what politics was? Wouldn't it be amazing? Sometimes I feel like there's too many smart people with way too much time on their hands, and they create these political storms as a way to generate money. I hope they all go into the gaming industry and make a tone of money without undermining a functional democracy. The problems we have don't always have money behind them. In fact, it's usually a trade-off we want someone with money to take, that they don't want to take. And the way we coerce an organization is through legislation. So it makes sense for orgs to take that control back and spend on PR campaigns and pundits to argue in their favor. Payola for sophists. But I digress...
  - OneLeggedCat 5y ago
    > That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much. Sure it does. There is no longer leverage of whoever is holding that blackmail, who may easily have interests opposite the public.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    The problem is that the existence of the secret and its power over the subject, not the actual content of it. Making it public benefits the public just because it’s no longer a secret.
ruined 5y ago
remember when the cia interfered with the congressional investigation of their torture program, by getting the FBI to investigate senators for viewing the documents that the CIA provided them, and spying on the senate investigation activities, and then nothing happened https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-fbi/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-f... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q820150114 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q82...
- ArtDev 5y ago
  I do remember that one. I can't believe they got away with it with zero consequences.
- javajosh 5y ago
  Yes, I remember! But I just got up to 2011 on my todo list and am playing through Borderlands 2. I'll follow up on 2014 matters which will hopefully take less than 3 more years.

Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Hiding this information is trading the wellbeing of the country for the NSA's own internal goals and power.

gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
Dangerously based and you’re-about-to-commit-suicide-with-two-gunshots-to-the-head pilled
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
mcbutterbunz 5y ago
> Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Depends on the dirt. Some of it might be private and personal stuff, such as infidelity. That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much.
- Eelongate 5y ago
  The public's elected representatives being easily blackmailable is obviously of great concern to the public, I don't know why you're downplaying this.
  - OminousWeapons 5y ago
    Everyone has dirty laundry they would prefer not be aired, and if they don't then their friends, family, or partners do. I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office.
    - krapp 5y ago
      >I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Don't worry, you live in a world where a man with a well documented decades-long laundry list of scandals and faux-pas can brag on tape about how he can get away with molesting young women because of how rich he is and still get elected President. I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Maybe just the eponymous "dead girl or live boy," but then you have the Kennedys...
      - snakeboy 5y ago
        I don't think "eponymous" is the word you meant there.
        krapp 5y ago
        You're probably right, but I'm too lazy to care.
      - bawolff 5y ago
        A person with no reputation to lose is hard to blackmail. I don't think trump generalizes in this context.
      - webmaven 5y ago
        > I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Well, in general anything that would get them prosecuted for a felony should be an effective stick. Add in a carrot and now they're on the hook for bribery too.
    - OneLeggedCat 5y ago
      > I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Well lucky you, we have the exact 100% polar opposite of that system currently. I think it would be fine to move toward it a little.
  - catlikesshrimp 5y ago
    Don't believe representatives are elected because of their integrity and their willingness to serve. They represent groups of interest. And being blackmailable is, in my opinion, a handy leash to keep them in check, for those groups which propose the candidates The public is not concerned with corruption until they feel affected by it.
    - javajosh 5y ago
      It sounds more like you're asserting that corruption has been redifined, because we expect elected officials to represent a group of interests... But this is quite circular. It would be better for us to maintain our high expectations of our leaders, even if those expectations are not currently being met. It doesn't mean that they cannot be met. It feels so damned gamed that I cannot imagine what a genuine political candidate would look like, a member of the public deciding, yes, I will run for office, and then speaking to their friends and neighbors about it, and submitting the paperwork to make it official. Can you imagine if that's what politics was? Wouldn't it be amazing? Sometimes I feel like there's too many smart people with way too much time on their hands, and they create these political storms as a way to generate money. I hope they all go into the gaming industry and make a tone of money without undermining a functional democracy. The problems we have don't always have money behind them. In fact, it's usually a trade-off we want someone with money to take, that they don't want to take. And the way we coerce an organization is through legislation. So it makes sense for orgs to take that control back and spend on PR campaigns and pundits to argue in their favor. Payola for sophists. But I digress...
- OneLeggedCat 5y ago
  > That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much. Sure it does. There is no longer leverage of whoever is holding that blackmail, who may easily have interests opposite the public.
- kortilla 5y ago
  The problem is that the existence of the secret and its power over the subject, not the actual content of it. Making it public benefits the public just because it’s no longer a secret.

ruined 5y ago

remember when the cia interfered with the congressional investigation of their torture program, by getting the FBI to investigate senators for viewing the documents that the CIA provided them, and spying on the senate investigation activities, and then nothing happened https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-fbi/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-f... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q820150114 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q82...

ArtDev 5y ago
I do remember that one. I can't believe they got away with it with zero consequences.
javajosh 5y ago
Yes, I remember! But I just got up to 2011 on my todo list and am playing through Borderlands 2. I'll follow up on 2014 matters which will hopefully take less than 3 more years.