7 ms·

Maybe stop funding them, for a start? Congressional oversight used to be a thing. Snowden showed the NSA lied to congress. No heads rolled.

throaway46546 5y ago
Imagine all the dirt the NSA has on congress.
- cwkoss 5y ago
  Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Hiding this information is trading the wellbeing of the country for the NSA's own internal goals and power.
  - gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
    Dangerously based and you’re-about-to-commit-suicide-with-two-gunshots-to-the-head pilled
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - mcbutterbunz 5y ago
    > Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Depends on the dirt. Some of it might be private and personal stuff, such as infidelity. That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much.
    - Eelongate 5y ago
      The public's elected representatives being easily blackmailable is obviously of great concern to the public, I don't know why you're downplaying this.
      - OminousWeapons 5y ago
        Everyone has dirty laundry they would prefer not be aired, and if they don't then their friends, family, or partners do. I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office.
        krapp 5y ago
        >I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Don't worry, you live in a world where a man with a well documented decades-long laundry list of scandals and faux-pas can brag on tape about how he can get away with molesting young women because of how rich he is and still get elected President. I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Maybe just the eponymous "dead girl or live boy," but then you have the Kennedys...
        snakeboy 5y ago
        I don't think "eponymous" is the word you meant there.
        krapp 5y ago
        You're probably right, but I'm too lazy to care.
        bawolff 5y ago
        A person with no reputation to lose is hard to blackmail. I don't think trump generalizes in this context.
        webmaven 5y ago
        > I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Well, in general anything that would get them prosecuted for a felony should be an effective stick. Add in a carrot and now they're on the hook for bribery too.
    - OneLeggedCat 5y ago
      > That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much. Sure it does. There is no longer leverage of whoever is holding that blackmail, who may easily have interests opposite the public.
    - kortilla 5y ago
      The problem is that the existence of the secret and its power over the subject, not the actual content of it. Making it public benefits the public just because it’s no longer a secret.
- ruined 5y ago
  remember when the cia interfered with the congressional investigation of their torture program, by getting the FBI to investigate senators for viewing the documents that the CIA provided them, and spying on the senate investigation activities, and then nothing happened https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-fbi/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-f... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q820150114 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q82...
  - ArtDev 5y ago
    I do remember that one. I can't believe they got away with it with zero consequences.
  - javajosh 5y ago
    Yes, I remember! But I just got up to 2011 on my todo list and am playing through Borderlands 2. I'll follow up on 2014 matters which will hopefully take less than 3 more years.
jjeaff 5y ago
I can believe there are shadow organizations that lack oversight. In fact, it seems likely. But that these shadow organizations are maintaining power by surveiling and blackmailing congress people is a whole other ballgame and seems highly unlikely to me. For one, it's likely that not every Congressperson has some deep dark secret that makes them blackmail-able. And pissing off the only group of people that could cut your funding and expose your shadow organization as well as bring oversight is not the group that you want to be pissing off. I think game theory would indicate that your only chance of maintaining a shadow organization in the US gov for any length of time is going to be secrecy and maybe some heavily funded lobbying.
- autoexec 5y ago
  > For one, it's likely that not every Congressperson has some deep dark secret that makes them blackmail-able. I'd be more than willing to bet that they do. "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." and that only covers "honest" men who wouldn't have illegal coordination with PACs, bribes with lobbyists, personal communications filled with racism, or evidence of sexual activities that might upset their base. When "6 lines" becomes a record of everything you've ever done online, all of your communications, your GPS coordinates and the data of anyone around you it's going to get easier to find a noose around your neck. Even if there managed to exist a single person in congress who wasn't screwing over the American people somehow for personal gain, or didn't have some skeleton in their closet they didn't want exposed to voters/campaign contributors when a group is capable of compromising your system and inserting whatever offensive material they want to use against you it's incentive enough to back off.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    You only need the capture the party leadership, they can keep everyone else in line via fundraising initiatives.
- arthur_sav 5y ago
  > But that these shadow organizations are maintaining power by surveiling and blackmailing congress people is a whole other ballgame and seems highly unlikely to me. Why is it so hard to believe that a few powerful indivisuals at the top, with common interests and agendas, are banded together? There's no official organization but a few indivisuals that streer things their way because they can.
literallyaduck 5y ago
Why would heads roll? Congress has blocked inquiries into their split loyalty as far as them having multiple citizenship in other countries. If you were McDonald's board of directors would you allow someone to be on both the McDonald's board and Wendy's? Congress isn't personally harmed by a surveillance state unless you consider they may all be being blackmailed but that is another conversation. In fact mass surveillance widens the barrier to new entries into politics as they can use whatever dirty they find and give it to federally funded media mouthpieces. This week we saw articles of sexual crimes against children being swept under the rug to "protect our country" do we really think that congress would actively pursuit this line of inquiry?
- sincerely 5y ago
  Isn't it pretty common to sit on the boards of multiple companeis?
- BoardsOfCanada 5y ago
  Context: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/07/spyi-m07.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/07/spyi-m07.html
thelittleone 5y ago
I'm all for sorting the problem out, but isn't the reality a little more complex given other countries? Doesn't cutting your intelligence / signals budgets give your "enemies" an advantage? By "enemies" I'm referring predominantly to foreign nation states.
zionic 5y ago
> Maybe stop funding them, for a start? I tried, they sent men with guns to my house when I stopped paying taxes

throaway46546 5y ago

Imagine all the dirt the NSA has on congress.

cwkoss 5y ago
Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Hiding this information is trading the wellbeing of the country for the NSA's own internal goals and power.
- gunfighthacksaw 5y ago
  Dangerously based and you’re-about-to-commit-suicide-with-two-gunshots-to-the-head pilled
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- mcbutterbunz 5y ago
  > Imagine how much society would improve if all the dirt got aired. Depends on the dirt. Some of it might be private and personal stuff, such as infidelity. That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much.
  - Eelongate 5y ago
    The public's elected representatives being easily blackmailable is obviously of great concern to the public, I don't know why you're downplaying this.
    - OminousWeapons 5y ago
      Everyone has dirty laundry they would prefer not be aired, and if they don't then their friends, family, or partners do. I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office.
      - krapp 5y ago
        >I don't think we want to live in a world where absolute moral purity (as determined by the most vocal, biased critics of a given person) is required to hold public office. Don't worry, you live in a world where a man with a well documented decades-long laundry list of scandals and faux-pas can brag on tape about how he can get away with molesting young women because of how rich he is and still get elected President. I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Maybe just the eponymous "dead girl or live boy," but then you have the Kennedys...
        snakeboy 5y ago
        I don't think "eponymous" is the word you meant there.
        krapp 5y ago
        You're probably right, but I'm too lazy to care.
        bawolff 5y ago
        A person with no reputation to lose is hard to blackmail. I don't think trump generalizes in this context.
        webmaven 5y ago
        > I'm actually wondering what you could effectively blackmail an American politician with, given how little Americans seem to care about the morality of their leaders. Well, in general anything that would get them prosecuted for a felony should be an effective stick. Add in a carrot and now they're on the hook for bribery too.
  - OneLeggedCat 5y ago
    > That type of stuff, while blackmailable, doesn't really benefit the public much. Sure it does. There is no longer leverage of whoever is holding that blackmail, who may easily have interests opposite the public.
  - kortilla 5y ago
    The problem is that the existence of the secret and its power over the subject, not the actual content of it. Making it public benefits the public just because it’s no longer a secret.
ruined 5y ago
remember when the cia interfered with the congressional investigation of their torture program, by getting the FBI to investigate senators for viewing the documents that the CIA provided them, and spying on the senate investigation activities, and then nothing happened https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-fbi/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2014/03/18/politics/cia-senate-dispute-f... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q820150114 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cia-senate-idUSKBN0KN2Q82...
- ArtDev 5y ago
  I do remember that one. I can't believe they got away with it with zero consequences.
- javajosh 5y ago
  Yes, I remember! But I just got up to 2011 on my todo list and am playing through Borderlands 2. I'll follow up on 2014 matters which will hopefully take less than 3 more years.

jjeaff 5y ago

I can believe there are shadow organizations that lack oversight. In fact, it seems likely. But that these shadow organizations are maintaining power by surveiling and blackmailing congress people is a whole other ballgame and seems highly unlikely to me. For one, it's likely that not every Congressperson has some deep dark secret that makes them blackmail-able. And pissing off the only group of people that could cut your funding and expose your shadow organization as well as bring oversight is not the group that you want to be pissing off. I think game theory would indicate that your only chance of maintaining a shadow organization in the US gov for any length of time is going to be secrecy and maybe some heavily funded lobbying.

autoexec 5y ago
> For one, it's likely that not every Congressperson has some deep dark secret that makes them blackmail-able. I'd be more than willing to bet that they do. "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest of men, I will find something in them which will hang him." and that only covers "honest" men who wouldn't have illegal coordination with PACs, bribes with lobbyists, personal communications filled with racism, or evidence of sexual activities that might upset their base. When "6 lines" becomes a record of everything you've ever done online, all of your communications, your GPS coordinates and the data of anyone around you it's going to get easier to find a noose around your neck. Even if there managed to exist a single person in congress who wasn't screwing over the American people somehow for personal gain, or didn't have some skeleton in their closet they didn't want exposed to voters/campaign contributors when a group is capable of compromising your system and inserting whatever offensive material they want to use against you it's incentive enough to back off.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  You only need the capture the party leadership, they can keep everyone else in line via fundraising initiatives.
arthur_sav 5y ago
> But that these shadow organizations are maintaining power by surveiling and blackmailing congress people is a whole other ballgame and seems highly unlikely to me. Why is it so hard to believe that a few powerful indivisuals at the top, with common interests and agendas, are banded together? There's no official organization but a few indivisuals that streer things their way because they can.

literallyaduck 5y ago

Why would heads roll? Congress has blocked inquiries into their split loyalty as far as them having multiple citizenship in other countries. If you were McDonald's board of directors would you allow someone to be on both the McDonald's board and Wendy's? Congress isn't personally harmed by a surveillance state unless you consider they may all be being blackmailed but that is another conversation. In fact mass surveillance widens the barrier to new entries into politics as they can use whatever dirty they find and give it to federally funded media mouthpieces. This week we saw articles of sexual crimes against children being swept under the rug to "protect our country" do we really think that congress would actively pursuit this line of inquiry?

sincerely 5y ago
Isn't it pretty common to sit on the boards of multiple companeis?
BoardsOfCanada 5y ago
Context: https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/07/spyi-m07.html https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/03/07/spyi-m07.html

thelittleone 5y ago

I'm all for sorting the problem out, but isn't the reality a little more complex given other countries? Doesn't cutting your intelligence / signals budgets give your "enemies" an advantage? By "enemies" I'm referring predominantly to foreign nation states.

zionic 5y ago

> Maybe stop funding them, for a start? I tried, they sent men with guns to my house when I stopped paying taxes