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I find it interesting with many of these criticisms that subject matter experts on maths, sciences, etc think that they are also subject matter experts on the p

I find it interesting with many of these criticisms that subject matter experts on maths, sciences, etc think that they are also subject matter experts on the pedagogy of maths, science, etc especially at a high school level. Many advanced practitioners don’t even have a good grasp of college level/post-grad pedagogy which they’d use more in their day to day work. Using a skill isn’t the same as teaching it, and just like anything else there are plenty of fallacies to be had. I’d be more persuaded by angry hot takes from High School teachers worried that their students aren’t going to hit the grades they deserve / learn the things they need than anything else. Even then, single high school teachers experiences are closer to anecdotes than actual pedagogical research, with which the original proposal is backed.

throwaway19937 5y ago
> I find it interesting with many of these criticisms that subject matter experts on maths, sciences, etc think that they are also subject matter experts on the pedagogy of maths, science, etc especially at a high school level. Public education in the US has a long history of fads, manias, and ill-conceived attempts at reform. There's little evidence of improvement over time or competitive performance. The following is an excerpt from (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-student...). The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science. Given these results I'll trust subject matter experts over educators any day.
dfdz 5y ago
You are missing the key point: these experts on maths, sciences, etc are not arguing HOW to teach maths, sciences, etc. They are only arguing WHAT is important to teach. High school math teachers do not have the perspective to understand what kind of math is needed for jobs in engineering, data science, etc (The fact is that a background in algebra and calculus is necessary for almost all of these jobs).
- itronitron 5y ago
  Which jobs require a background in algebra and calculus, and what exactly do you consider to satisfy the requirements of a background?
  - laichzeit0 5y ago
    The actuarial sciences, engineering, anaesthesiology, etc. Is this even a serious question?
gopher_space 5y ago
Whenever public discourse turns to topics within my domain I realize that even one degree of separation from a subject means you're basically just making stuff up. How many people on the planet are worth listening to when it comes to teaching math?
rahimnathwani 5y ago
"I’d be more persuaded by angry hot takes from High School teachers worried that their students aren’t going to hit the grades they deserve / learn the things they need than anything else." How about this teacher, who teaches math at San Francisco's top public school: https://cheesemonkeysf.blogspot.com/ https://cheesemonkeysf.blogspot.com/
c1ccccc1 5y ago
I didn't see anyone claiming to be a subject matter expert in math/science education in the article. So a second possibility remains open: they believe that it's possible to raise reasonable objections to this proposal without being an expert in education specifically.

throwaway19937 5y ago

> I find it interesting with many of these criticisms that subject matter experts on maths, sciences, etc think that they are also subject matter experts on the pedagogy of maths, science, etc especially at a high school level. Public education in the US has a long history of fads, manias, and ill-conceived attempts at reform. There's little evidence of improvement over time or competitive performance. The following is an excerpt from (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/ https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-student...). The most recent PISA results, from 2015, placed the U.S. an unimpressive 38th out of 71 countries in math and 24th in science. Among the 35 members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which sponsors the PISA initiative, the U.S. ranked 30th in math and 19th in science. Given these results I'll trust subject matter experts over educators any day.

dfdz 5y ago

You are missing the key point: these experts on maths, sciences, etc are not arguing HOW to teach maths, sciences, etc. They are only arguing WHAT is important to teach. High school math teachers do not have the perspective to understand what kind of math is needed for jobs in engineering, data science, etc (The fact is that a background in algebra and calculus is necessary for almost all of these jobs).

itronitron 5y ago
Which jobs require a background in algebra and calculus, and what exactly do you consider to satisfy the requirements of a background?
- laichzeit0 5y ago
  The actuarial sciences, engineering, anaesthesiology, etc. Is this even a serious question?

gopher_space 5y ago

Whenever public discourse turns to topics within my domain I realize that even one degree of separation from a subject means you're basically just making stuff up. How many people on the planet are worth listening to when it comes to teaching math?

rahimnathwani 5y ago

"I’d be more persuaded by angry hot takes from High School teachers worried that their students aren’t going to hit the grades they deserve / learn the things they need than anything else." How about this teacher, who teaches math at San Francisco's top public school: https://cheesemonkeysf.blogspot.com/ https://cheesemonkeysf.blogspot.com/

c1ccccc1 5y ago

I didn't see anyone claiming to be a subject matter expert in math/science education in the article. So a second possibility remains open: they believe that it's possible to raise reasonable objections to this proposal without being an expert in education specifically.