5 ms·

This is first of all so condescending and second of all so defeatist. Isn't it possible to have a life outside of work and still want to leave your house and se

This is first of all so condescending and second of all so defeatist. Isn't it possible to have a life outside of work and still want to leave your house and see people IRL for the 8+ hours per day you spend working? Just because I have friends and hobbies doesn't mean I have to love working from home.

aaomidi 5y ago
[flagged]
- easytiger 5y ago
  I've worked both models for decades. If you think it's possible to efficiently replicate in person collaboration electronically I'm afraid I'm going to have to question your motives. > The proponents of in office work are people who have been so fucked by capitalism that they're unable to actually find life & joy outside that they want everyone else to live so miserably. Aside from the obvious childish assault on evil capitalism how does this make sense? Getting something done presumably still requires a level of commitment, concentration and effort. If you aren't wealthy and have a family it's I likely you can create your own space to do so for a start. Furthermore some people are different to you and have different needs and situations; different demands and different response to stimuli. How do you know what is best for them?
- jvolkman 5y ago
  > The proponents of in office work are people who have been so fucked by capitalism that they're unable to actually find life & joy outside that they want everyone else to live so miserably. Quite the generalization. I just enjoy working with my coworkers in-person, in an environment separated from the distractions at my own home.
- ceras 5y ago
  > Your desire to work from the office comes at the cost of everyone else. Not everyone prefers remote work. There are many permanent remote teams and companies these days to choose from. What's so bad about people like you joining remote teams, and people like OP joining in-office teams?
- tuckerman 5y ago
  Couldn't the reverse be said for folks wanting to WFH? Everyone who wants to come into the office has to change their communication style to something that is often less convenient. I think there are pros and cons to both and we will probably end up with some companies (or parts of companies) that specialize either way. I think it's perfectly fine for some folks to prefer working in an office with most/all of their coworkers.
  - emaginniss 5y ago
    I assume you're the person who walks up to my desk and begins a conversation without taking into account how busy I am or how much I'm concentrating on my task. Having you separated from me by slack and zoom instead of a cube partition has made me much happier.
    - tuckerman 5y ago
      I'm not and I wouldn't presume folks that enjoy working in the office are all like that. At least from a lot of folks I've spoken to at different companies (not speaking about any Google survey here. opinions/anecdotes are my own), it seems like a sizeable portion of the staff wants to be in the office ~3 days per week. I think that there are a lot of folks that want fully remote but they tend to be much more vocal than people quite content with 3-2. Either way, I'd recommend you try and find a company that supports your work style and I'll find one that supports mine. Not every company has to be everything to everyone and I think that's okay.
      - ghaff 5y ago
        >it seems like a sizable portion of the staff wants to be in the office ~3 days per week That's pretty consistent with a number of surveys I've seen. We'll probably see more people fully remote at the end of the day but most aren't moving to mountain towns and, if they weren't fully remote before, they mostly won't be after. (And I suspect that a lot of the new "officially" remote workers were de facto mostly remote before. I'm one of those. I was assigned to an office but I even gave up my desk the last time there was a furniture reconfiguration.)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
cblconfederate 5y ago
Go to a cafe
it_does_follow 5y ago
> This is first of all so condescending It's not condescending. Many people have spent years neglecting their home life and personal life in favor of work life. People have been actively encouraged by employers to do this. But at the end of the day for some people pandemic was a blessing and others it was a curse and for most this distinction rests on how much energy people spend prior to the pandemic maintaining their non-office life. Office life will never return to the way it was pre-pandemic. Absolutely for some people this situation sucks, but it isn't going to resolve itself. I've seen countless people in HN comments like this effectively waiting for things to go back to the way there were: they won't. Things will change, and they will improve but if you're waiting for a return to feel good again, you will never feel good again. If you want to stop feeling bad, you need to actively start figuring out new possible ways to feel better. Working on building relationships with friends, neighbors, members of your local community is a good place to start.
- ghaff 5y ago
  >Office life will never return to the way it was pre-pandemic. I think this is absolutely right. It will vary by company of course. But more people will be fully remote and, based on a bunch of different studies I've seen, in-office will probably be 3 days a week or so for most people. Now I would expect co-located teams to coordinate some but I doubt that the 9-5 everyone in the office world will be the norm at most companies for the foreseeable future.
- nickff 5y ago
  I understand that you're trying to show the parent commenter a different perspective, but telling somebody that a comment is not condescending is unconvincing, especially when the statement is followed by an exposition of your world view. Empathy is the opposite of condescension; if you want to show someone that you're on their level, and genuinely want to convince them, you should try to state their premise in your own words, and then show the advantages of your outlook.
  - time_to_smile 5y ago
    The irony here being that this is comment is itself a perfect example of condescension.
b20000 5y ago
the current situation offers an opportunity to increase leverage for knowledge workers , and i think for that reason alone, no one should ever return to the office.

aaomidi 5y ago

[flagged]

easytiger 5y ago
I've worked both models for decades. If you think it's possible to efficiently replicate in person collaboration electronically I'm afraid I'm going to have to question your motives. > The proponents of in office work are people who have been so fucked by capitalism that they're unable to actually find life & joy outside that they want everyone else to live so miserably. Aside from the obvious childish assault on evil capitalism how does this make sense? Getting something done presumably still requires a level of commitment, concentration and effort. If you aren't wealthy and have a family it's I likely you can create your own space to do so for a start. Furthermore some people are different to you and have different needs and situations; different demands and different response to stimuli. How do you know what is best for them?
jvolkman 5y ago
> The proponents of in office work are people who have been so fucked by capitalism that they're unable to actually find life & joy outside that they want everyone else to live so miserably. Quite the generalization. I just enjoy working with my coworkers in-person, in an environment separated from the distractions at my own home.
ceras 5y ago
> Your desire to work from the office comes at the cost of everyone else. Not everyone prefers remote work. There are many permanent remote teams and companies these days to choose from. What's so bad about people like you joining remote teams, and people like OP joining in-office teams?
tuckerman 5y ago
Couldn't the reverse be said for folks wanting to WFH? Everyone who wants to come into the office has to change their communication style to something that is often less convenient. I think there are pros and cons to both and we will probably end up with some companies (or parts of companies) that specialize either way. I think it's perfectly fine for some folks to prefer working in an office with most/all of their coworkers.
- emaginniss 5y ago
  I assume you're the person who walks up to my desk and begins a conversation without taking into account how busy I am or how much I'm concentrating on my task. Having you separated from me by slack and zoom instead of a cube partition has made me much happier.
  - tuckerman 5y ago
    I'm not and I wouldn't presume folks that enjoy working in the office are all like that. At least from a lot of folks I've spoken to at different companies (not speaking about any Google survey here. opinions/anecdotes are my own), it seems like a sizeable portion of the staff wants to be in the office ~3 days per week. I think that there are a lot of folks that want fully remote but they tend to be much more vocal than people quite content with 3-2. Either way, I'd recommend you try and find a company that supports your work style and I'll find one that supports mine. Not every company has to be everything to everyone and I think that's okay.
    - ghaff 5y ago
      >it seems like a sizable portion of the staff wants to be in the office ~3 days per week That's pretty consistent with a number of surveys I've seen. We'll probably see more people fully remote at the end of the day but most aren't moving to mountain towns and, if they weren't fully remote before, they mostly won't be after. (And I suspect that a lot of the new "officially" remote workers were de facto mostly remote before. I'm one of those. I was assigned to an office but I even gave up my desk the last time there was a furniture reconfiguration.)
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

cblconfederate 5y ago

Go to a cafe

it_does_follow 5y ago

> This is first of all so condescending It's not condescending. Many people have spent years neglecting their home life and personal life in favor of work life. People have been actively encouraged by employers to do this. But at the end of the day for some people pandemic was a blessing and others it was a curse and for most this distinction rests on how much energy people spend prior to the pandemic maintaining their non-office life. Office life will never return to the way it was pre-pandemic. Absolutely for some people this situation sucks, but it isn't going to resolve itself. I've seen countless people in HN comments like this effectively waiting for things to go back to the way there were: they won't. Things will change, and they will improve but if you're waiting for a return to feel good again, you will never feel good again. If you want to stop feeling bad, you need to actively start figuring out new possible ways to feel better. Working on building relationships with friends, neighbors, members of your local community is a good place to start.

ghaff 5y ago
>Office life will never return to the way it was pre-pandemic. I think this is absolutely right. It will vary by company of course. But more people will be fully remote and, based on a bunch of different studies I've seen, in-office will probably be 3 days a week or so for most people. Now I would expect co-located teams to coordinate some but I doubt that the 9-5 everyone in the office world will be the norm at most companies for the foreseeable future.
nickff 5y ago
I understand that you're trying to show the parent commenter a different perspective, but telling somebody that a comment is not condescending is unconvincing, especially when the statement is followed by an exposition of your world view. Empathy is the opposite of condescension; if you want to show someone that you're on their level, and genuinely want to convince them, you should try to state their premise in your own words, and then show the advantages of your outlook.
- time_to_smile 5y ago
  The irony here being that this is comment is itself a perfect example of condescension.

b20000 5y ago

the current situation offers an opportunity to increase leverage for knowledge workers , and i think for that reason alone, no one should ever return to the office.