3 ms·

Couldn't you just move to a larger and cheaper apartment since you don't have to live directly next to the office anymore? I don't understand, if the problem is

by ctoth 5y ago

Couldn't you just move to a larger and cheaper apartment since you don't have to live directly next to the office anymore? I don't understand, if the problem is your space, change your space. Maybe try that whole getting a pet thing. Even with the office as a social outlet I wouldn't want to live in a 1 bedroom apartment very long. Also consider using a separate computer for work and nonwork stuff, and turning the work computer off at a specific time. Once it's shut down, you're done for the day. You can give yourself permission to disconnect from work without forcing everyone into an office.

doublerabbit 5y ago
> Couldn't you just move to a larger and cheaper apartment since you don't have to live directly next to the office anymore? I don't understand, if the problem is your space, change your space. Will you fund all my costs to move apartments? Transport costs? Costs to and from my social activities? I like where I am. I shouldn't need to move because upcoming generations doesn't enjoy office life. I get it, I really do. Commuting to work sucks, transport sucks, meetings suck but to ignore those who do actually enjoy being in the office is sad. I hate webcam, zoom, teams. I need real face interaction. It's an outlet. > Once it's shut down, you're done for the day. You can give yourself permission to disconnect from work without forcing everyone into an office. I disconnect by knowing that I can walk through my apartment door and be free from anything work related. Separation is how I disconnect. I like my own space, and it shouldn't need to be filled with work related objects. Otherwise my life will always be orientated around work knowing I have to have that one bit of space for a work laptop. That's not healthy.
- ghaff 5y ago
  > I shouldn't need to move because upcoming generations doesn't enjoy office life. From what I've seen it's the younger people who mostly really want to get back into offices for the social aspect. Those of us who own houses in the country or suburbs are mostly fine with not driving into offices, not that I did it much pre-pandemic. And I totally get the social aspect. With some trade events spinning back up I've really appreciated the opportunity to reconnect with people in person.
f1yght 5y ago
I feel like sometimes people miss that living close to an office usually comes with living close to other amenities like restaurants, grocery stores, etc that you could walk or bike to. So "Just move to a larger and cheaper apartment" is likely a complete change to the way a lot of people live. I don't want to have to buy a larger house than I need just so I can supply my own office. We already have housing shortages, bigger houses isn't going to help that problem.
- time_to_smile 5y ago
  I feel like people who make comments like this have only experienced NYC/SF and the deep suburbs of those areas. There are so many places around the world where you can live in a slightly smaller urban area, live down town, walk to everything, typically have a stronger local community and pay a fraction of what you do in a large metro for a bigger apartment. I completely understand not wanting to move from a place with easy, walkable access to food + grocery + bar + etc, but there are a huge range of options for cities that you can easily afford a 2+ bedroom and be part of an active down town area.
  - jjav 5y ago
    > I feel like people who make comments like this have only experienced NYC/SF and the deep suburbs of those areas. Agreed. I don't understand the false dichotomy of either ultra-dense NYC/SF or else having to drive 20 minutes to the nearest shop. That doesn't fit my experience at all. I live in a small town (~10K people) surrounded mostly by forest and mountains, so relatively rural. This is in California. But I can walk to just about anything I need (multiple supermarkets, pharmacies, hardware stores, many restaurants, movies, etc). On my bike I can easily get to the far side of town (about a mile away) for even more choices in restaurants and shops, breweries, pubs. So it is entirely possible to have a house well outside a large city and yet have everything within walking distance.
nja 5y ago
As someone who's lived in a _studio_ apartment in a high-rent city for a decade, you have good points, but a lot of this is easier said than done. > move to a larger and cheaper apartment since you don't have to live directly next to the office anymore In the Boston area, this basically comes down to "either live with space in the middle of nowhere isolated from anyone, or live in the city core but pay $$$$$$ for a tiny place" -- and especially if we are discussing working only from home (so limiting that potential avenue for socialization), moving away from any other social avenues can be daunting. Maybe this is less of a dilemma for someone who has a family, since then they can just socialize with SO/kids/etc. > Maybe try that whole getting a pet thing. If only 99% of landlords didn't disallow pets... > Also consider using a separate computer for work and nonwork stuff, and turning the work computer off at a specific time. Once it's shut down, you're done for the day. On the surface, these are valid points, but they contain a few assumptions that can be challenging. For example: that your company is okay with you being offline for _16 hours_ of the day. How does that work if you've got an on-call rotation, coworkers in other timezones, critical products with low bus factors, etc? For example, at 11pm ET it is 9:30am IST -- not being able to respond to pings/questions/PRs from coworkers on your team who are on the other side of the globe can be detrimental. There's also the physical aspect -- if you are in the same (350sqft, in my case) room 24 hours a day, and you use it for work for 12-14 hours every day, even when not working, it's easy for the mind to stay in "work mode" despite trying to shut off work computers, etc. > You can give yourself permission to disconnect from work without forcing everyone into an office. I know this is in response to the post itself, regarding Google (delaying) forcing people back to the office. However, there might be some middle ground here. I have been going into my office one day a week for a change of pace (and to have _some_ on/off time via my train commute) -- but it is a lot nicer when other teammates join me in-office, to get some semblance that I'm working with other human beings for a change. I'm totally not on board with _forcing_ anyone to go in, but it is nice to have the option to coordinate. I have found myself missing casual after-work beers on Fridays -- even pre-pandemic, not everyone joined (those with families would generally leave to get home early), but among those who _did_, it really helped build more camaraderie and made the company feel like it was staffed with _people_ rather than just anonymous cogs.
- jjav 5y ago

by ctoth 5y ago

doublerabbit 5y ago

> Couldn't you just move to a larger and cheaper apartment since you don't have to live directly next to the office anymore? I don't understand, if the problem is your space, change your space. Will you fund all my costs to move apartments? Transport costs? Costs to and from my social activities? I like where I am. I shouldn't need to move because upcoming generations doesn't enjoy office life. I get it, I really do. Commuting to work sucks, transport sucks, meetings suck but to ignore those who do actually enjoy being in the office is sad. I hate webcam, zoom, teams. I need real face interaction. It's an outlet. > Once it's shut down, you're done for the day. You can give yourself permission to disconnect from work without forcing everyone into an office. I disconnect by knowing that I can walk through my apartment door and be free from anything work related. Separation is how I disconnect. I like my own space, and it shouldn't need to be filled with work related objects. Otherwise my life will always be orientated around work knowing I have to have that one bit of space for a work laptop. That's not healthy.

ghaff 5y ago
> I shouldn't need to move because upcoming generations doesn't enjoy office life. From what I've seen it's the younger people who mostly really want to get back into offices for the social aspect. Those of us who own houses in the country or suburbs are mostly fine with not driving into offices, not that I did it much pre-pandemic. And I totally get the social aspect. With some trade events spinning back up I've really appreciated the opportunity to reconnect with people in person.

f1yght 5y ago

I feel like sometimes people miss that living close to an office usually comes with living close to other amenities like restaurants, grocery stores, etc that you could walk or bike to. So "Just move to a larger and cheaper apartment" is likely a complete change to the way a lot of people live. I don't want to have to buy a larger house than I need just so I can supply my own office. We already have housing shortages, bigger houses isn't going to help that problem.

time_to_smile 5y ago
I feel like people who make comments like this have only experienced NYC/SF and the deep suburbs of those areas. There are so many places around the world where you can live in a slightly smaller urban area, live down town, walk to everything, typically have a stronger local community and pay a fraction of what you do in a large metro for a bigger apartment. I completely understand not wanting to move from a place with easy, walkable access to food + grocery + bar + etc, but there are a huge range of options for cities that you can easily afford a 2+ bedroom and be part of an active down town area.
- jjav 5y ago
  > I feel like people who make comments like this have only experienced NYC/SF and the deep suburbs of those areas. Agreed. I don't understand the false dichotomy of either ultra-dense NYC/SF or else having to drive 20 minutes to the nearest shop. That doesn't fit my experience at all. I live in a small town (~10K people) surrounded mostly by forest and mountains, so relatively rural. This is in California. But I can walk to just about anything I need (multiple supermarkets, pharmacies, hardware stores, many restaurants, movies, etc). On my bike I can easily get to the far side of town (about a mile away) for even more choices in restaurants and shops, breweries, pubs. So it is entirely possible to have a house well outside a large city and yet have everything within walking distance.

nja 5y ago

As someone who's lived in a _studio_ apartment in a high-rent city for a decade, you have good points, but a lot of this is easier said than done. > move to a larger and cheaper apartment since you don't have to live directly next to the office anymore In the Boston area, this basically comes down to "either live with space in the middle of nowhere isolated from anyone, or live in the city core but pay $$$$$$ for a tiny place" -- and especially if we are discussing working only from home (so limiting that potential avenue for socialization), moving away from any other social avenues can be daunting. Maybe this is less of a dilemma for someone who has a family, since then they can just socialize with SO/kids/etc. > Maybe try that whole getting a pet thing. If only 99% of landlords didn't disallow pets... > Also consider using a separate computer for work and nonwork stuff, and turning the work computer off at a specific time. Once it's shut down, you're done for the day. On the surface, these are valid points, but they contain a few assumptions that can be challenging. For example: that your company is okay with you being offline for _16 hours_ of the day. How does that work if you've got an on-call rotation, coworkers in other timezones, critical products with low bus factors, etc? For example, at 11pm ET it is 9:30am IST -- not being able to respond to pings/questions/PRs from coworkers on your team who are on the other side of the globe can be detrimental. There's also the physical aspect -- if you are in the same (350sqft, in my case) room 24 hours a day, and you use it for work for 12-14 hours every day, even when not working, it's easy for the mind to stay in "work mode" despite trying to shut off work computers, etc. > You can give yourself permission to disconnect from work without forcing everyone into an office. I know this is in response to the post itself, regarding Google (delaying) forcing people back to the office. However, there might be some middle ground here. I have been going into my office one day a week for a change of pace (and to have _some_ on/off time via my train commute) -- but it is a lot nicer when other teammates join me in-office, to get some semblance that I'm working with other human beings for a change. I'm totally not on board with _forcing_ anyone to go in, but it is nice to have the option to coordinate. I have found myself missing casual after-work beers on Fridays -- even pre-pandemic, not everyone joined (those with families would generally leave to get home early), but among those who _did_, it really helped build more camaraderie and made the company feel like it was staffed with _people_ rather than just anonymous cogs.

jjav 5y ago