3 ms·

This might work if you actually had to get a new title in order to sell the car, but you don't.

by FDSGSG 5y ago

zeusk 5y ago
Title and registration are separate in the US. Title must be signed at sale. Registration is for on-road use and can be expired for race cars (I trailer mine to tracks). I bricked the ECU on my car while tuning and it was part of the three module handshake for the key authentication. Replacement unit from dealer required sending to BMW corporate - valid title, drivers license and proof of address. I received the ECU and dealer had to program/pair the CAS and keys I had with the new ECU.
- FDSGSG 5y ago
  > Title must be signed at sale Even then this seems like a pretty pointless exercise, titles aren't particularly difficult to forge (assuming you don't just find it in the glovebox). Without cryptographic signatures or a mandatory online ownership registry this quickly devolves into meaningless security theatre. But I suppose that's really the point, they ask for the title in order to make their customers feel safe, not to prevent crime.
  - zeusk 5y ago
    Titles are certified by DMV and have authenticity markers usually, not so easily forged. If you can copy such documents, you should rather focus on copying cash currency. And even if you find one in the glovebox, there is a pretty good system in place for the justice system to decide if that transfer was fraudulent (was due consideration exchanged in terms of fair market value of the vehicle or relationship between the "new" and previous owner). If the vehicle was reported stolen, when they call to verify the title provided - the dealer will be warned as such.
    - FDSGSG 5y ago
      A $500 Epson SC-p600 inkjet printer will suffice for most titles, this is the same equipment used to produce most of the (Teslin-based) fake IDs in the US. If there are UV features, you'll just need another cheaper inkjet printer and UV inks from uvstuff.com. Holograms? OVI? Just hit up alibaba sellers, or talk to https://www.material-house.com/ https://www.material-house.com/ To produce even somewhat convincing cash, you will have to invest hundreds of thousands to procure a Heidelberg offset printing machine and learn how to operate it (and fix it, because presumably your forgery operation will not be able to take advantage of support contracts). This isn't a simple task, and banks will still catch your fake money. This is the kind of equipment you'd be looking at to produce fake currency (at the low end) https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-counterfeit-money/img/money_printer.jpg https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-counterfeit-money/im... >And even if you find one in the glovebox, there is a pretty good system in place for the justice system to decide if that transfer was fraudulent (was due consideration exchanged in terms of fair market value of the vehicle or relationship between the "new" and previous owner). Of course, but the question at hand is whether or not the dealer asking for a title before providing new keys actually offers any meaningful security benefits or not. I believe that this is just security theatre. >If the vehicle was reported stolen, when they call to verify the title provided - the dealer will be warned as such. Presumably the title doesn't play any meaningful part here. They could just call in with the VIN, no?

This might work if you actually had to get a new title in order to sell the car, but you don't.

by FDSGSG 5y ago

This might work if you actually had to get a new title in order to sell the car, but you don't.

Title and registration are separate in the US. Title must be signed at sale. Registration is for on-road use and can be expired for race cars (I trailer mine to tracks). I bricked the ECU on my car while tuning and it was part of the three module handshake for the key authentication. Replacement unit from dealer required sending to BMW corporate - valid title, drivers license and proof of address. I received the ECU and dealer had to program/pair the CAS and keys I had with the new ECU.

FDSGSG 5y ago
> Title must be signed at sale Even then this seems like a pretty pointless exercise, titles aren't particularly difficult to forge (assuming you don't just find it in the glovebox). Without cryptographic signatures or a mandatory online ownership registry this quickly devolves into meaningless security theatre. But I suppose that's really the point, they ask for the title in order to make their customers feel safe, not to prevent crime.
- zeusk 5y ago
  Titles are certified by DMV and have authenticity markers usually, not so easily forged. If you can copy such documents, you should rather focus on copying cash currency. And even if you find one in the glovebox, there is a pretty good system in place for the justice system to decide if that transfer was fraudulent (was due consideration exchanged in terms of fair market value of the vehicle or relationship between the "new" and previous owner). If the vehicle was reported stolen, when they call to verify the title provided - the dealer will be warned as such.
  - FDSGSG 5y ago
    A $500 Epson SC-p600 inkjet printer will suffice for most titles, this is the same equipment used to produce most of the (Teslin-based) fake IDs in the US. If there are UV features, you'll just need another cheaper inkjet printer and UV inks from uvstuff.com. Holograms? OVI? Just hit up alibaba sellers, or talk to https://www.material-house.com/ https://www.material-house.com/ To produce even somewhat convincing cash, you will have to invest hundreds of thousands to procure a Heidelberg offset printing machine and learn how to operate it (and fix it, because presumably your forgery operation will not be able to take advantage of support contracts). This isn't a simple task, and banks will still catch your fake money. This is the kind of equipment you'd be looking at to produce fake currency (at the low end) https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-counterfeit-money/img/money_printer.jpg https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-counterfeit-money/im... >And even if you find one in the glovebox, there is a pretty good system in place for the justice system to decide if that transfer was fraudulent (was due consideration exchanged in terms of fair market value of the vehicle or relationship between the "new" and previous owner). Of course, but the question at hand is whether or not the dealer asking for a title before providing new keys actually offers any meaningful security benefits or not. I believe that this is just security theatre. >If the vehicle was reported stolen, when they call to verify the title provided - the dealer will be warned as such. Presumably the title doesn't play any meaningful part here. They could just call in with the VIN, no?