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I don't understand how you can remove algebra from middle-school curricula without exacerbating inequality. Supplementary math education in our area costs abou

I don't understand how you can remove algebra from middle-school curricula without exacerbating inequality. Supplementary math education in our area costs about $1500-$2500/year (looking at Russian School of Math list prices). The exemplary private schools in the area I grew up charge $30k-$35k annual tuition (with financial aid available for some families). And you can DIY home instruction -- I've been working through the Moebius Noodles play with our 4yo, and I guess you could try to see if there's a Math Circle to sign up for. But not every household can afford the time or money to coordinate extracurricular instruction. The kids whose parents are hyper-prepared and able to spend the time and money will end up with better math background, maybe a better shot at the AHSME/AIME/USAMO, and I guess maybe better career outcomes, versus their peers. Is that a fair outcome? Is it a good thing to do? I'm very willing to be wrong here … I just don't understand how this plan promotes equity. p.s. saw this in the news and tried introducing algebra to the 4yo. We're not quite ready yet. "Hey kid -- if I have four of something but I want to have six of them, how many do I need to add?" He holds up a fist, empty. "Four." Then he starts counting out fingers. One finger: "Five!". Two fingers: "Six!". He says, "Two!" "That's right, kid. Sometimes we say 4+x=6, so x=2." He gives a sly grin. "But I know my numbers so well that I don't need to use x!"

jkhdigital 5y ago
This should be the foundation for all teacher training: spend most of your time sitting with small groups of kids at various ages and try to teach them concepts that are obviously beyond their current knowledge. Take copious notes. Patterns will emerge, and you’ll develop an intuition about what sticks and what doesn’t.
- earleybird 5y ago
  Piaget - stages of cognitive development?
- xwdv 5y ago
  Meh, you’re asking too much. For many teaching is just a steady paycheck and generous time off. It’s not a calling.
  - yellow_postit 5y ago
    There is no “generous” time off if talking about public primary education in the US. Curriculum development and continuing education most frequently happen outside the “day job hours”.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    > For many teaching is just a steady paycheck and generous time off. A tiny paycheck and... I'm sorry, I have no idea how to read "generous" time off; are you referring to summers when they don't get paid, or something else? My impression is that most teachers are working significantly over 40h/wk and either don't know that they're victims of wage theft or somehow don't care.
    - teeray 5y ago
      My mom taught high school for 35 years, and said that was the biggest misconception: “Oh, you teach? Summers off must be nice.” She’d reply “not when you don’t get paid over the summer.” Also, teachers doing things like chaperoning the dance and stuff are probably not getting paid for that time.
AlanYx 5y ago
Moebius Noodles looks fantastic. Would you happen to have any other resources you'd recommend for DIY home instruction for early childhood learners?
- julienb_sea 5y ago
  I don't have kids but I keep seeing https://www.kiwico.com/ https://www.kiwico.com/ recommended all over the internet and it seems like a great way to get projects and learning infused into early childhood play and exploration.
Izkata 5y ago
I actually remember worksheets in first grade (around age 7) where we had problems exactly like that, but with an empty box instead of a letter and we wrote the answer in the box.
ucm_edge 5y ago
Related, I also have a hunch that the UC system dropping the SAT is going to promote inequality. I don't want to defend standardized tests as flawless, but the SAT has been around forever, you can go to basically any public library and get a prep book, one of the librarians can probably help explain it to you, most teachers are familiar with the strategies to improve score on it, resources exist on the internet, etc. So there exists a multitude of paths toward showing proficiency on it. Now that we're not doing standardized tests and turning admission into high school transcript plus additional material it's really going to help the kids whose parents can organize and pay for the most extra circulars.
- financetechbro 5y ago
  What about the kids who can afford to pay for top tier college consultants and tutors to maximize their standardized test scores? Doesn’t that also exacerbate inequity?
  - durovo 5y ago
    I am not from the US but I did appear for the SAT. The books are more than enough to get a very good score on the SAT. In my opinion, SAT is not difficult enough for coaching to make a very big difference.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Does it actually work? These tests are notorious for having all the prep material in a few inexpensive books.
  - handoflixue 5y ago
    The question is which system exacerbates inequality the least: On the one hand we have a well-known system with objective answers and a widely available study catalog, and on the other hand we have a system that largely involves administrators applying their subjective discretion to which extra-curriculars or essay is "best".
- nickff 5y ago
  >"Related, I also have a hunch that the UC system dropping the SAT is going to promote inequality." My guess is that it will reduce racial inequality, but increase inequality based on parental income (class). Eliminating SAT scores will result in greater affirmative action, and the richest people of each race will be able to sculpt a compelling resume for their child; there will be no way for those with poorer parents to compete on the holistic measures.
somethoughts 5y ago
For those interested in understanding what it looks like on the flip side - from the generally underserved side of things - here's an interesting article. Middle-school students embrace endless summer ... of linear equations https://edsource.org/2017/middle-school-students-embrace-endless-summer-of-linear-equations/583180 https://edsource.org/2017/middle-school-students-embrace-end... The Effects of the Elevate Math Summer Program on Math Achievement and Algebra Readiness https://www.wested.org/resources/effects-of-elevate-math-summer-program/ https://www.wested.org/resources/effects-of-elevate-math-sum... Khan Academy in 7th Grade Math Classes: A Case Study https://www.wested.org/resources/khan-academy-7th-grade-math/ https://www.wested.org/resources/khan-academy-7th-grade-math...
wott 5y ago
> I just don't understand how this plan promotes equity. Well, it can turn every one into a bad pupil :-) I wish people would take a look at what happened in other countries which followed a somehow similar path of dumbing down courses and lowering requirements. Here is what 25 years of dumbing down achieved in France: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xHQ532qyiek/XJ8kH-PnVTI/AAAAAAAAHgM/_AxijiIjesg9AdfL94GX6es2K6p3_tIDgCLcBGAs/s1600/10.PNG https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xHQ532qyiek/XJ8kH-PnVTI/AAAAAAAAH... This extremely telling graph about the level in the end of primary school is taken from an official note from the Ministry of Education itself: https://www.education.gouv.fr/media/22373/download https://www.education.gouv.fr/media/22373/download It is about maths (calculus) but we have somewhat similar drops in other matters, notably in French language. You can easily see on the graph how the above average pupils from now perform as bas as the below average pupils from 30 years ago. Only a small part of pupils perform as the average pupil used to perform. You can also note that the 'excellent' pupils have basically disappeared: there is no bump (and no long tail) on the right of the curve any more. Furthermore, every social category performs much worse: http://centre-alain-savary.ens-lyon.fr/CAS/documents/documents-frederique-j/Capturedecran20200408a10.19.51.png/@@images/c3b30c4b-f425-47a0-a1bb-d9f30aff3284.png http://centre-alain-savary.ens-lyon.fr/CAS/documents/documen... Not a single category got something positive about it. The lower social classes for which this dumbing down was intended actually suffer badly from it; the upper classes didn't find ways to escape it either. It is estimated that when they reach the end of high school, pupils' level is late by 1 or 2 years (depending on the matter) compared to what it was in the last two decades of the XXth century (when high school access was already expanded massively, we're not talking about the 50s-60s-70s). And yet the high-school pupils are basically automatically all given the degree: 95% success rate compared to 75% in the 90s (and in those days that was after many had repeated 1 or more years, which they don't any more, they almost all pass all classes automatically, even though they didn't assimilate the necessary knowledge and understanding to follow next classes ). Another troublesome consequence is that it propagates. Very recently, universities, which for a long time tried to keep the same level as before, started to dumb down their courses an lower their requirements for passing years too, because the first years of university had become a slaughterhouse for a mass of students who were coming with a completely insufficient level (the high-school graduation serves as an automatic entry ticket for universities, there is no entrance exam). So the same effect as in primary and secondary education is about to happen, and selection is pushed to the Master level, but that last barrier will probably very soon break too (we already hear complaints about it).

jkhdigital 5y ago

This should be the foundation for all teacher training: spend most of your time sitting with small groups of kids at various ages and try to teach them concepts that are obviously beyond their current knowledge. Take copious notes. Patterns will emerge, and you’ll develop an intuition about what sticks and what doesn’t.

earleybird 5y ago
Piaget - stages of cognitive development?
xwdv 5y ago
Meh, you’re asking too much. For many teaching is just a steady paycheck and generous time off. It’s not a calling.
- yellow_postit 5y ago
  There is no “generous” time off if talking about public primary education in the US. Curriculum development and continuing education most frequently happen outside the “day job hours”.
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  > For many teaching is just a steady paycheck and generous time off. A tiny paycheck and... I'm sorry, I have no idea how to read "generous" time off; are you referring to summers when they don't get paid, or something else? My impression is that most teachers are working significantly over 40h/wk and either don't know that they're victims of wage theft or somehow don't care.
  - teeray 5y ago
    My mom taught high school for 35 years, and said that was the biggest misconception: “Oh, you teach? Summers off must be nice.” She’d reply “not when you don’t get paid over the summer.” Also, teachers doing things like chaperoning the dance and stuff are probably not getting paid for that time.

AlanYx 5y ago

Moebius Noodles looks fantastic. Would you happen to have any other resources you'd recommend for DIY home instruction for early childhood learners?

julienb_sea 5y ago
I don't have kids but I keep seeing https://www.kiwico.com/ https://www.kiwico.com/ recommended all over the internet and it seems like a great way to get projects and learning infused into early childhood play and exploration.

Izkata 5y ago

I actually remember worksheets in first grade (around age 7) where we had problems exactly like that, but with an empty box instead of a letter and we wrote the answer in the box.

ucm_edge 5y ago

Related, I also have a hunch that the UC system dropping the SAT is going to promote inequality. I don't want to defend standardized tests as flawless, but the SAT has been around forever, you can go to basically any public library and get a prep book, one of the librarians can probably help explain it to you, most teachers are familiar with the strategies to improve score on it, resources exist on the internet, etc. So there exists a multitude of paths toward showing proficiency on it. Now that we're not doing standardized tests and turning admission into high school transcript plus additional material it's really going to help the kids whose parents can organize and pay for the most extra circulars.

financetechbro 5y ago
What about the kids who can afford to pay for top tier college consultants and tutors to maximize their standardized test scores? Doesn’t that also exacerbate inequity?
- durovo 5y ago
  I am not from the US but I did appear for the SAT. The books are more than enough to get a very good score on the SAT. In my opinion, SAT is not difficult enough for coaching to make a very big difference.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Does it actually work? These tests are notorious for having all the prep material in a few inexpensive books.
- handoflixue 5y ago
  The question is which system exacerbates inequality the least: On the one hand we have a well-known system with objective answers and a widely available study catalog, and on the other hand we have a system that largely involves administrators applying their subjective discretion to which extra-curriculars or essay is "best".
nickff 5y ago
>"Related, I also have a hunch that the UC system dropping the SAT is going to promote inequality." My guess is that it will reduce racial inequality, but increase inequality based on parental income (class). Eliminating SAT scores will result in greater affirmative action, and the richest people of each race will be able to sculpt a compelling resume for their child; there will be no way for those with poorer parents to compete on the holistic measures.

somethoughts 5y ago

For those interested in understanding what it looks like on the flip side - from the generally underserved side of things - here's an interesting article. Middle-school students embrace endless summer ... of linear equations https://edsource.org/2017/middle-school-students-embrace-endless-summer-of-linear-equations/583180 https://edsource.org/2017/middle-school-students-embrace-end... The Effects of the Elevate Math Summer Program on Math Achievement and Algebra Readiness https://www.wested.org/resources/effects-of-elevate-math-summer-program/ https://www.wested.org/resources/effects-of-elevate-math-sum... Khan Academy in 7th Grade Math Classes: A Case Study https://www.wested.org/resources/khan-academy-7th-grade-math/ https://www.wested.org/resources/khan-academy-7th-grade-math...

wott 5y ago

> I just don't understand how this plan promotes equity. Well, it can turn every one into a bad pupil :-) I wish people would take a look at what happened in other countries which followed a somehow similar path of dumbing down courses and lowering requirements. Here is what 25 years of dumbing down achieved in France: https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xHQ532qyiek/XJ8kH-PnVTI/AAAAAAAAHgM/_AxijiIjesg9AdfL94GX6es2K6p3_tIDgCLcBGAs/s1600/10.PNG https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xHQ532qyiek/XJ8kH-PnVTI/AAAAAAAAH... This extremely telling graph about the level in the end of primary school is taken from an official note from the Ministry of Education itself: https://www.education.gouv.fr/media/22373/download https://www.education.gouv.fr/media/22373/download It is about maths (calculus) but we have somewhat similar drops in other matters, notably in French language. You can easily see on the graph how the above average pupils from now perform as bas as the below average pupils from 30 years ago. Only a small part of pupils perform as the average pupil used to perform. You can also note that the 'excellent' pupils have basically disappeared: there is no bump (and no long tail) on the right of the curve any more. Furthermore, every social category performs much worse: http://centre-alain-savary.ens-lyon.fr/CAS/documents/documents-frederique-j/Capturedecran20200408a10.19.51.png/@@images/c3b30c4b-f425-47a0-a1bb-d9f30aff3284.png http://centre-alain-savary.ens-lyon.fr/CAS/documents/documen... Not a single category got something positive about it. The lower social classes for which this dumbing down was intended actually suffer badly from it; the upper classes didn't find ways to escape it either. It is estimated that when they reach the end of high school, pupils' level is late by 1 or 2 years (depending on the matter) compared to what it was in the last two decades of the XXth century (when high school access was already expanded massively, we're not talking about the 50s-60s-70s). And yet the high-school pupils are basically automatically all given the degree: 95% success rate compared to 75% in the 90s (and in those days that was after many had repeated 1 or more years, which they don't any more, they almost all pass all classes automatically, even though they didn't assimilate the necessary knowledge and understanding to follow next classes ). Another troublesome consequence is that it propagates. Very recently, universities, which for a long time tried to keep the same level as before, started to dumb down their courses an lower their requirements for passing years too, because the first years of university had become a slaughterhouse for a mass of students who were coming with a completely insufficient level (the high-school graduation serves as an automatic entry ticket for universities, there is no entrance exam). So the same effect as in primary and secondary education is about to happen, and selection is pushed to the Master level, but that last barrier will probably very soon break too (we already hear complaints about it).