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With the implication that you "save a lot of time" by learning another editor (nano) you are confusing skill ceiling with skill floor. If you want to compare th

With the implication that you "save a lot of time" by learning another editor (nano) you are confusing skill ceiling with skill floor. If you want to compare those editors, compare them at the learning level you are presenting them. The other editors do not involve any learning if you don't learn anything about them, Vim involves a lot of learning if you learn most of its features. However to use Vim in the way you present the other editors, you don't have to learn much at all, arrow keys work, the gui version has window menus for most options. Want to use Vim without the learning? i to insert, ESC to go back from insertion mode, arrow keys to navigate, there you are, you are basically using Vim at the level that you want people to use other editors. If I want much more than that I'll have to learn the features and keybindings of the other editors too. Last time I checked the knowledge of how to search, split panes, switch buffers, search and replace etc. wasn't magically inserted into my brain as soon as I open my copy of VSCode or Nano. > you have to reconfigure basic keybinds like the arrow keys Since when do arrow keys not work in Vim by default? Learning all of Vims features vs. learning only the minimum in other editors is not a fair comparison.

spekcular 5y ago
Other editors don't require nearly the same effort to learn because features are (typically) easily discoverable via the menu bar, or use standard shortcuts. I've never used VSCode in my life, but I bet you a dollar that control-C copies, control-V pastes, and control-F brings up a search dialogue. I also would bet that if I want to split a pane, I can figure out how to do that my mousing around the menu in under ~30 seconds. Whereas, trying to do pane-like things in vim requires Googling (more efficient in my experience than trying to use the built-in manual) and then reading some stackexchange answer that devolves into a philosophical discussion about the merits of buffers versus tabs.
- inykt 5y ago
  I think that the journey that you went through (philosophical discussion about...) is more important than just going on with your life which is made easy in VSCode. This eventually gives rise to a community. Like I can assume that hacker news readers can (or figure out how to) exit vim without using any search engine.
  - nyx 5y ago
    I, uh... should preface this by saying that vim is my main editor, and I always install a vim plugin if possible when using a different one. It's great, it makes me faster, etc. etc. Alright, that aside, when all is said and done I think a lot of people just want to edit their file. Parent comment about having to go to Google to do simple things makes a good point, and the response that "actually, I think having to read a bunch of troglodytes arguing with each other on Stack Overflow is an important part of the experience" is the kind of thing that makes it hard for everyone else to take vim fanatics seriously.
llaolleh 5y ago
The problem with Vim only development we don't have the OS support to use only the keyboard. Soon or later you have to reach for the mouse to scroll through the browser, or change/rearrange windows, even with all the fancy Vim plug-ins.
- least 5y ago
  I'm not sure why that's a problem for using vim, as if the only reason people use vim is to avoid using the mouse.

spekcular 5y ago

Other editors don't require nearly the same effort to learn because features are (typically) easily discoverable via the menu bar, or use standard shortcuts. I've never used VSCode in my life, but I bet you a dollar that control-C copies, control-V pastes, and control-F brings up a search dialogue. I also would bet that if I want to split a pane, I can figure out how to do that my mousing around the menu in under ~30 seconds. Whereas, trying to do pane-like things in vim requires Googling (more efficient in my experience than trying to use the built-in manual) and then reading some stackexchange answer that devolves into a philosophical discussion about the merits of buffers versus tabs.

inykt 5y ago
I think that the journey that you went through (philosophical discussion about...) is more important than just going on with your life which is made easy in VSCode. This eventually gives rise to a community. Like I can assume that hacker news readers can (or figure out how to) exit vim without using any search engine.
- nyx 5y ago
  I, uh... should preface this by saying that vim is my main editor, and I always install a vim plugin if possible when using a different one. It's great, it makes me faster, etc. etc. Alright, that aside, when all is said and done I think a lot of people just want to edit their file. Parent comment about having to go to Google to do simple things makes a good point, and the response that "actually, I think having to read a bunch of troglodytes arguing with each other on Stack Overflow is an important part of the experience" is the kind of thing that makes it hard for everyone else to take vim fanatics seriously.

llaolleh 5y ago

The problem with Vim only development we don't have the OS support to use only the keyboard. Soon or later you have to reach for the mouse to scroll through the browser, or change/rearrange windows, even with all the fancy Vim plug-ins.

least 5y ago
I'm not sure why that's a problem for using vim, as if the only reason people use vim is to avoid using the mouse.