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> The end result when I was looking for a dog was that the shelters have nothing but pit bulls and Chihuahuas, and the dogs that the public prefers are all mark

> The end result when I was looking for a dog was that the shelters have nothing but pit bulls and Chihuahuas, and the dogs that the public prefers are all marked "reserved" or just gone. This is so frustrating! I'm currently looking for a dog, and the shelters near me have a few special needs dogs, a few "lab mixes" or "shepherd mixes" that are obviously Staffordshire terriers that happened to get lucky by having long noses and slightly less boxy heads than the average 'mix', but they constantly have trucks of pit bulls and Chihuahuas arriving from Texas and Louisiana and Mississippi. Pre-COVID, I went to a pet expo and met a staggering number of these breed rescue groups. There are no Goldens at any shelters, but there's a golden rescue. No Weimaraners at any shelters, but there's a weim rescue. No dalmatians, but there's a dalmatian rescue. No greyhounds, but there's a greyhound rescue. No huskies, but there's a husky rescue. There are no pit bull rescues, I'm guessing because they'd be accused of operating a fighting ring, and if they tried to snap up every dog that matched their requirements they'd be inundated with ten thousand dogs. Those breeds don't need rescuing, they get snapped up from the shelters faster than I can hit "F5", probably because (as you said) shelter intake staff are calling the breed rescue groups before even listing the dogs. I don't think I'm a pitbull bigot, but I'd like an actual choice in adopting a dog, and I don't want to pay someone a thousand dollars for the privilege of 'rescuing' it. It's almost enough to push someone away from the shelters to buy from a backyard breeder...

AlbertCory 5y ago
Thanks, I expected a flood of condemnations! The term "backyard breeder" is just one step up in snobbery from "trailer trash." I got my two cats from families that could be called backyard breeders. To me, that meant that children played with the kittens, which is especially crucial to cats. So if you want a golden (fantastic dogs, btw!), there are lots of breeders. You might have to drive for a few hours to find one. I drove two hours for my Lab breeder.
- quartz 5y ago
  I uh... I don't think that was a condemnation at all?
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    I uh... I didn't say it was, but I guess you could legitimately read it that way. I meant "I expected a flood of condemnations, but this is nice." or words to that effect.
    - quartz 5y ago
      Oh wow, I completely read it as if you were saying "thanks for condemning me as I expected you would" and was very confused why you'd take it that way. Apologies!
- pxc 5y ago
  > The term "backyard breeder" is just one step up in snobbery from "trailer trash." The term is often used to refer to people running extremely sketchy for-profit operations (basically very small scale puppy mills). Operations like that often falsely present themselves as the more innocent 'oops my grandma's dog and my dog bred one time because we didn't know hers wasn't fixed' type. Traditional breeders have all kinds of other problems. Imo there's not really any great way to get a puppy, ethically speaking
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    > The term is often used to refer to people running extremely sketchy for-profit operations Yeah, no question. There are also people, like the family I got my first cat from, that like to breed animals and do their best to be kind to them. Perhaps some term that doesn't conflate the two groups would be preferable.
    - pxc 5y ago
      > Perhaps some term that doesn't conflate the two groups would be preferable. 100% agreed. I don't give a shit whether someone I buy a puppy from is (let's be real) a sufficiently certified canine eugenicist. I care whether they are kind and responsible and attentive with the animals in their home. That's it.
smorgusofborg 5y ago
I find it a bit ironic that you and the OP seem to be saying these rescue groups work for their actual goal and the goal of the shelter.
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  What do you think the "goal of the shelter" is? To just move as many dogs out as possible, or to serve the public by giving them fair access to dogs others don't want? Those are subtly different.
  - smorgusofborg 5y ago
    Successfully performing an ethical responsibility to house dogs in a good situation inherently deprioritizes every member of the the public getting a great choice in free dogs. That is a successful supply side shortage which is the goal. I don't see how I could ethically agree that people's rights to get the dog they want through a rescue shelter exists and is more important to a shelter than the welfare of the dogs placed in it's care.
    - AlbertCory 5y ago
      Sorry, but you're resorting to word salad here. "The welfare of the dogs placed in it's [sic] care" is not at issue, as I'll demonstrate: Let's say a highly desirable dog, say a beautiful young Golden Retriever, is brought to the shelter, and further, let's suppose the shelter euthanizes all dogs after two weeks. Normally, a member of the public would adopt this dog within a day or less. They're a very popular breed. How is "the welfare of the dogs placed in its care" enhanced by the Golden Rescue group taking it and deciding for themselves who should have it? (If the foster person doesn't keep it for themselves, which often happens.) Let's say the shelter has an agreement with them: "if a Golden is slated for euthanasia within two days, you may take it." That seems fair to me. So the only argument you're left with is "the Rescue group will do a better job of choosing its home." Not proven and doubtful, sorry. Those people are volunteers with no training and no accountability. The shelter is going to be at least as good.

AlbertCory 5y ago

Thanks, I expected a flood of condemnations! The term "backyard breeder" is just one step up in snobbery from "trailer trash." I got my two cats from families that could be called backyard breeders. To me, that meant that children played with the kittens, which is especially crucial to cats. So if you want a golden (fantastic dogs, btw!), there are lots of breeders. You might have to drive for a few hours to find one. I drove two hours for my Lab breeder.

quartz 5y ago
I uh... I don't think that was a condemnation at all?
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  I uh... I didn't say it was, but I guess you could legitimately read it that way. I meant "I expected a flood of condemnations, but this is nice." or words to that effect.
  - quartz 5y ago
    Oh wow, I completely read it as if you were saying "thanks for condemning me as I expected you would" and was very confused why you'd take it that way. Apologies!
pxc 5y ago
> The term "backyard breeder" is just one step up in snobbery from "trailer trash." The term is often used to refer to people running extremely sketchy for-profit operations (basically very small scale puppy mills). Operations like that often falsely present themselves as the more innocent 'oops my grandma's dog and my dog bred one time because we didn't know hers wasn't fixed' type. Traditional breeders have all kinds of other problems. Imo there's not really any great way to get a puppy, ethically speaking
- AlbertCory 5y ago
  > The term is often used to refer to people running extremely sketchy for-profit operations Yeah, no question. There are also people, like the family I got my first cat from, that like to breed animals and do their best to be kind to them. Perhaps some term that doesn't conflate the two groups would be preferable.
  - pxc 5y ago
    > Perhaps some term that doesn't conflate the two groups would be preferable. 100% agreed. I don't give a shit whether someone I buy a puppy from is (let's be real) a sufficiently certified canine eugenicist. I care whether they are kind and responsible and attentive with the animals in their home. That's it.

smorgusofborg 5y ago

I find it a bit ironic that you and the OP seem to be saying these rescue groups work for their actual goal and the goal of the shelter.

AlbertCory 5y ago
What do you think the "goal of the shelter" is? To just move as many dogs out as possible, or to serve the public by giving them fair access to dogs others don't want? Those are subtly different.
- smorgusofborg 5y ago
  Successfully performing an ethical responsibility to house dogs in a good situation inherently deprioritizes every member of the the public getting a great choice in free dogs. That is a successful supply side shortage which is the goal. I don't see how I could ethically agree that people's rights to get the dog they want through a rescue shelter exists and is more important to a shelter than the welfare of the dogs placed in it's care.
  - AlbertCory 5y ago
    Sorry, but you're resorting to word salad here. "The welfare of the dogs placed in it's [sic] care" is not at issue, as I'll demonstrate: Let's say a highly desirable dog, say a beautiful young Golden Retriever, is brought to the shelter, and further, let's suppose the shelter euthanizes all dogs after two weeks. Normally, a member of the public would adopt this dog within a day or less. They're a very popular breed. How is "the welfare of the dogs placed in its care" enhanced by the Golden Rescue group taking it and deciding for themselves who should have it? (If the foster person doesn't keep it for themselves, which often happens.) Let's say the shelter has an agreement with them: "if a Golden is slated for euthanasia within two days, you may take it." That seems fair to me. So the only argument you're left with is "the Rescue group will do a better job of choosing its home." Not proven and doubtful, sorry. Those people are volunteers with no training and no accountability. The shelter is going to be at least as good.