5 ms·

Wonder if EVs could come with built-in extinguishers... maybe just for the battery compartment. Would CO2 work? Probably not remotely practical.

teeray 5y ago
With lithium battery fires, you need to both extinguish the fire and cool the battery. They’re like those trick birthday candles. Water is usually best at both jobs. What would be better is a charger hooked up to a standpipe with orifices in the car to extinguish and cool the batteries.
- busterarm 5y ago
  > With lithium battery fires, you need to both extinguish the fire and cool the battery. They’re like those trick birthday candles. Water is usually best at both jobs. What would be better is a charger hooked up to a standpipe with orifices in the car to extinguish and cool the batteries. No, this is stupid. Lithium, the main component of this battery chemistry, reacts _intensely_ with water, producing both lithium hydroxide and flammable hydrogen gas. It's an exothermic reaction and lasts longer than sodium in water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxqe_ZOwsHs&t=61s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxqe_ZOwsHs&t=61s
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - nielsbot 5y ago
    Parent comment seems to be correct: the key thing to do is lower the temperature. Here's an interesting FAA study I found about it: https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-13-53.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-13-53.pdf Also, just googling it returns this, for example "Traditional fire extinguishers, such as foam and water, don’t work on lithium battery fires. The only way to extinguish a lithium battery fire is to flood the battery with water." [https://bridgehill.com/fire-blankets/lithium/ https://bridgehill.com/fire-blankets/lithium/]
    - busterarm 5y ago
      That's "for the prevention of thermal runway". This study is talking about how to _prevent_ fires. We're talking about fires that have already started here and are raging out of control and consuming the car. The battery verification tests confirmed that aqueous agents were most effective for the prevention of thermal runaway propagation. For the lithium-ion cell chemistries tested, none of the handheld agents at their recommended application distances were able to prevent propagation. The lithium-metal battery tests revealed that, without suppression, the cells would propagate into thermal runaway. To stop propagation, 500 mL of the aqueous agents were sufficient.
      - errcorrectcode 5y ago
        The FAA has an instructional video for flight attendants and other flight crew as to how to extinguish li-ion fires. Step one: pour a bunch of cold drinks on it. Step two: the end. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3ZOvhRNwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3ZOvhRNwU
  - errcorrectcode 5y ago
    Unfortunately, you're wrong in this scenario. The FAA demonstrates this isn't a concern. You should do your research before promulgating FUD and misinformation.
    - busterarm 5y ago
      lol...FUD. it's basic fucking chemistry. Go back to school. Please. Batteries that the FAA is worried about are orders of magnitude smaller than what we're talking about in an electric vehicle.
- nielsbot 5y ago
  Cold CO2 then

teeray 5y ago

With lithium battery fires, you need to both extinguish the fire and cool the battery. They’re like those trick birthday candles. Water is usually best at both jobs. What would be better is a charger hooked up to a standpipe with orifices in the car to extinguish and cool the batteries.

busterarm 5y ago
> With lithium battery fires, you need to both extinguish the fire and cool the battery. They’re like those trick birthday candles. Water is usually best at both jobs. What would be better is a charger hooked up to a standpipe with orifices in the car to extinguish and cool the batteries. No, this is stupid. Lithium, the main component of this battery chemistry, reacts _intensely_ with water, producing both lithium hydroxide and flammable hydrogen gas. It's an exothermic reaction and lasts longer than sodium in water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxqe_ZOwsHs&t=61s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxqe_ZOwsHs&t=61s
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- nielsbot 5y ago
  Parent comment seems to be correct: the key thing to do is lower the temperature. Here's an interesting FAA study I found about it: https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-13-53.pdf https://www.fire.tc.faa.gov/pdf/TC-13-53.pdf Also, just googling it returns this, for example "Traditional fire extinguishers, such as foam and water, don’t work on lithium battery fires. The only way to extinguish a lithium battery fire is to flood the battery with water." [https://bridgehill.com/fire-blankets/lithium/ https://bridgehill.com/fire-blankets/lithium/]
  - busterarm 5y ago
    That's "for the prevention of thermal runway". This study is talking about how to _prevent_ fires. We're talking about fires that have already started here and are raging out of control and consuming the car. The battery verification tests confirmed that aqueous agents were most effective for the prevention of thermal runaway propagation. For the lithium-ion cell chemistries tested, none of the handheld agents at their recommended application distances were able to prevent propagation. The lithium-metal battery tests revealed that, without suppression, the cells would propagate into thermal runaway. To stop propagation, 500 mL of the aqueous agents were sufficient.
    - errcorrectcode 5y ago
      The FAA has an instructional video for flight attendants and other flight crew as to how to extinguish li-ion fires. Step one: pour a bunch of cold drinks on it. Step two: the end. Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3ZOvhRNwU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh3ZOvhRNwU
- errcorrectcode 5y ago
  Unfortunately, you're wrong in this scenario. The FAA demonstrates this isn't a concern. You should do your research before promulgating FUD and misinformation.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    lol...FUD. it's basic fucking chemistry. Go back to school. Please. Batteries that the FAA is worried about are orders of magnitude smaller than what we're talking about in an electric vehicle.
nielsbot 5y ago
Cold CO2 then