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> What I find interesting is that dogs are way better adapt at living a “city life” or an “apartment life” This is certainly not the case with some of the herd

> What I find interesting is that dogs are way better adapt at living a “city life” or an “apartment life” This is certainly not the case with some of the herding / working dog breeds (GSD, Malinois etc) - it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases, and dangerous in others. I lived with a presa canario for a year in an apartment (roommates dog) - it was not a good situation for the dog or anyone else. After I moved out, I learned the dog attacked someone and was euthanized.

sktrdie 5y ago
Certainly makes sense we also breed in the opposite direction. Where they are better fit to be outdoors. Still I would argue dogs have a certain adaptation to living indoors that was bread into them artificially rather than naturally. Herd dogs still relied on the food/shelter from the owner.
notyourwork 5y ago
> This is certainly not the case with some of the herding / working dog breeds (GSD, Malinois etc) - it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases, and dangerous in others. 100%, I live in a city high rise. I see too many anxious dogs in that category that are "toys" to the owner and do not get sufficient exercise and mental stimulation. I love the beligan malinois breed but realize I have a lifestyle today that prevents me from owning one. Its similar to fish and aquarium sizes in many ways.
a-saleh 5y ago
I think 'borderline cruel/dangerous' is overstating it (I do live in an 1 bedroom appt with 2 BOC and 1 BOM), but it certainly is true that if you have a working dog, you need to give it work. And place to expunge energy. My partner does several dog-sports, and it seems that if you have on avg 30-90m training a day over the week, most of the day your dogs will just be happily tired and lounge around and sleep. Or if she has more lenient training shedule, we do take them to run around in a field just outside of city like every two days. The misconception is, that if you give a working dog big enough yard next to your house, it will be happy, but in reality you still need to train and work with it. If I were to exagerate, this kind of psychological neglect too can be borderline cruel and sometimes dangerous. The bad thing is, even the owners might not realize. I heard several stories along the lines of "Our bordercolie is well fed, and well behaved, and has access to run around in a large garden, and take her with us every weekend on a hike, and then bites our friends child into her leg when the she tried to run away?" ... well, yeah, I am not surprised that a shepherd dog that isn't well trained and never worked would do something stupid like that. My point probably is, that even in the sad story of the hard-to-manage presa canario, yeah, having it in an appartment didn§t make things easier, but I wouldn't see it as the primary problem.
clusterhacks 5y ago
I had a Malinois for 15.5 years. She was a wonderful dog in most respects but frankly required a significant amount of management despite years of training and socialization on top of a large fenced yard and ample daily exercise. I would heavily caution people to deeply consider what owning high-drive and super-reactive dogs actually means in day-to-day life. Dogs with these temperaments do have wonderful (and fun) qualities but simply require specialized environments and handling.
ed_balls 5y ago
> it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases I don't think this is true. You can have a husky in a flat, but have to go for a run every morning. I have a German Shepard. She goes for 3 walks a day and a lot of weekend trips. The flat is just a kennel.

sktrdie 5y ago

Certainly makes sense we also breed in the opposite direction. Where they are better fit to be outdoors. Still I would argue dogs have a certain adaptation to living indoors that was bread into them artificially rather than naturally. Herd dogs still relied on the food/shelter from the owner.

notyourwork 5y ago

> This is certainly not the case with some of the herding / working dog breeds (GSD, Malinois etc) - it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases, and dangerous in others. 100%, I live in a city high rise. I see too many anxious dogs in that category that are "toys" to the owner and do not get sufficient exercise and mental stimulation. I love the beligan malinois breed but realize I have a lifestyle today that prevents me from owning one. Its similar to fish and aquarium sizes in many ways.

a-saleh 5y ago

I think 'borderline cruel/dangerous' is overstating it (I do live in an 1 bedroom appt with 2 BOC and 1 BOM), but it certainly is true that if you have a working dog, you need to give it work. And place to expunge energy. My partner does several dog-sports, and it seems that if you have on avg 30-90m training a day over the week, most of the day your dogs will just be happily tired and lounge around and sleep. Or if she has more lenient training shedule, we do take them to run around in a field just outside of city like every two days. The misconception is, that if you give a working dog big enough yard next to your house, it will be happy, but in reality you still need to train and work with it. If I were to exagerate, this kind of psychological neglect too can be borderline cruel and sometimes dangerous. The bad thing is, even the owners might not realize. I heard several stories along the lines of "Our bordercolie is well fed, and well behaved, and has access to run around in a large garden, and take her with us every weekend on a hike, and then bites our friends child into her leg when the she tried to run away?" ... well, yeah, I am not surprised that a shepherd dog that isn't well trained and never worked would do something stupid like that. My point probably is, that even in the sad story of the hard-to-manage presa canario, yeah, having it in an appartment didn§t make things easier, but I wouldn't see it as the primary problem.

clusterhacks 5y ago

I had a Malinois for 15.5 years. She was a wonderful dog in most respects but frankly required a significant amount of management despite years of training and socialization on top of a large fenced yard and ample daily exercise. I would heavily caution people to deeply consider what owning high-drive and super-reactive dogs actually means in day-to-day life. Dogs with these temperaments do have wonderful (and fun) qualities but simply require specialized environments and handling.

ed_balls 5y ago

> it is borderline cruel keeping them in an apartment in some cases I don't think this is true. You can have a husky in a flat, but have to go for a run every morning. I have a German Shepard. She goes for 3 walks a day and a lot of weekend trips. The flat is just a kennel.