3 ms·

Utopia of Rules - our culture thinks that if we just had the right set of rules and everyone fallowed them then everything would work well. This is a flawed bel

Utopia of Rules - our culture thinks that if we just had the right set of rules and everyone fallowed them then everything would work well. This is a flawed belief, like other utopias. I don't see what about ContentID is related to the "Utopia of Rules" issue. ContentID seems more like a problem related to issues of capitalism, where a corporation will make decisions to maximum profits at the expense of any human or social impacts. Alongside the inability to effectively reign in corporations who make such decisions.

sidewndr46 5y ago
ContentID is less of a "Utopia of Rules" and more of a "Kingdom of dictates". Google dictates you are subject to ContentID if you want to participate in YouTube. If you don't want to be subject to that, leave the kingdom.
AnthonyMouse 5y ago
> ContentID seems more like a problem related to issues of capitalism, where a corporation will make decisions to maximum profits at the expense of any human or social impacts. Capitalism is the thing where there is supposed to be vigorous free market competition and ContentID would have no power. Because even if 70% of the services were getting it wrong, anyone could switch to any of the other 30% with minimal friction, and then the original 70% would fix their shit or lose market share. Capitalism isn't a synonym for anarchy. It needs, for example, government enforcement of property rights. But it also needs antitrust. Constraints on vertical integration. The lack of effective antitrust enforcement has allowed markets to concentrate. Which removes competitive pressure, which allows incumbents to make rules that benefit them and their business partners at the expense of customers who now have high switching costs. Enabling the "Utopia of Rules."
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  ContentID wasn't built because Google thought it would be a great service for end users. It was made in response to a lawsuit by, IIRC, Viacom. There's no practical way for a competitor to operate without their own version of ContentID as it is a function of copyright law and not market forces. Even so, I would bet the vast majority Google's customers that are aware of ContentID like ContentID and want it to spread everywhere, to all companies in all nations. I mean, how likely is it that Ford (a big customer) would move to UpstartVideo.biz because they don't automatically analyze uploaded videos?
  - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
    > There's no practical way for a competitor to operate without their own version of ContentID as it is a function of copyright law and not market forces. Which part of copyright law is the ContentID part? It's not in DMCA 512 anywhere I can see. YouTube in particular had problems because in their early days they were, shall we say, not well-counseled on the copyright front, and were still getting sued over that. They were also trying to make nice with Hollywood to try to get them to license premium content. Many competing video services don't have anything like ContentID. But they also don't have priority search results on google.com, so content creators don't want to use them. And the "you're not the customer, you're the product" trope doesn't really apply -- in a competitive market, suppliers have a choice in who to sell through too. And Ford follows the eyeballs.
    - notreallyserio 5y ago
      > Which part of copyright law is the ContentID part? It's not in DMCA 512 anywhere I can see. It's a measure to avoid legal ramifications under the DMCA and other acts. > Many competing video services don't have anything like ContentID. But they also don't have priority search results on google.com, so content creators don't want to use them. It's only a matter of time that they'll fold due to lack of interest, fold due to lawsuits, or implement ContentID or similar. Or they'll restrict and moderate uploads manually which has exactly the same effect, or perhaps even worse (still erring on the side of legal caution).
      - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
        > It's a measure to avoid legal ramifications under the DMCA and other acts. Why would there be "legal ramifications" for someone complying with the ordinary DMCA notice and takedown process? > It's only a matter of time that they'll fold due to lack of interest, fold due to lawsuits, or implement ContentID or similar. It has been decades. They're still there. The lack of popularity is for the reason already mentioned. If your YouTube video gets on the first page of Google search results and the exact same video hosted on some other site doesn't, what are content creators going to use?

sidewndr46 5y ago

ContentID is less of a "Utopia of Rules" and more of a "Kingdom of dictates". Google dictates you are subject to ContentID if you want to participate in YouTube. If you don't want to be subject to that, leave the kingdom.

AnthonyMouse 5y ago

> ContentID seems more like a problem related to issues of capitalism, where a corporation will make decisions to maximum profits at the expense of any human or social impacts. Capitalism is the thing where there is supposed to be vigorous free market competition and ContentID would have no power. Because even if 70% of the services were getting it wrong, anyone could switch to any of the other 30% with minimal friction, and then the original 70% would fix their shit or lose market share. Capitalism isn't a synonym for anarchy. It needs, for example, government enforcement of property rights. But it also needs antitrust. Constraints on vertical integration. The lack of effective antitrust enforcement has allowed markets to concentrate. Which removes competitive pressure, which allows incumbents to make rules that benefit them and their business partners at the expense of customers who now have high switching costs. Enabling the "Utopia of Rules."

notreallyserio 5y ago
ContentID wasn't built because Google thought it would be a great service for end users. It was made in response to a lawsuit by, IIRC, Viacom. There's no practical way for a competitor to operate without their own version of ContentID as it is a function of copyright law and not market forces. Even so, I would bet the vast majority Google's customers that are aware of ContentID like ContentID and want it to spread everywhere, to all companies in all nations. I mean, how likely is it that Ford (a big customer) would move to UpstartVideo.biz because they don't automatically analyze uploaded videos?
- AnthonyMouse 5y ago
  > There's no practical way for a competitor to operate without their own version of ContentID as it is a function of copyright law and not market forces. Which part of copyright law is the ContentID part? It's not in DMCA 512 anywhere I can see. YouTube in particular had problems because in their early days they were, shall we say, not well-counseled on the copyright front, and were still getting sued over that. They were also trying to make nice with Hollywood to try to get them to license premium content. Many competing video services don't have anything like ContentID. But they also don't have priority search results on google.com, so content creators don't want to use them. And the "you're not the customer, you're the product" trope doesn't really apply -- in a competitive market, suppliers have a choice in who to sell through too. And Ford follows the eyeballs.
  - notreallyserio 5y ago
    > Which part of copyright law is the ContentID part? It's not in DMCA 512 anywhere I can see. It's a measure to avoid legal ramifications under the DMCA and other acts. > Many competing video services don't have anything like ContentID. But they also don't have priority search results on google.com, so content creators don't want to use them. It's only a matter of time that they'll fold due to lack of interest, fold due to lawsuits, or implement ContentID or similar. Or they'll restrict and moderate uploads manually which has exactly the same effect, or perhaps even worse (still erring on the side of legal caution).
    - AnthonyMouse 5y ago
      > It's a measure to avoid legal ramifications under the DMCA and other acts. Why would there be "legal ramifications" for someone complying with the ordinary DMCA notice and takedown process? > It's only a matter of time that they'll fold due to lack of interest, fold due to lawsuits, or implement ContentID or similar. It has been decades. They're still there. The lack of popularity is for the reason already mentioned. If your YouTube video gets on the first page of Google search results and the exact same video hosted on some other site doesn't, what are content creators going to use?