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In time, hopefully, we'll have books that explain this charlie foxtrot. There's so much to the story, I can't wrap my head around even the outline. Especially h

In time, hopefully, we'll have books that explain this charlie foxtrot. There's so much to the story, I can't wrap my head around even the outline. Especially hard because every actor can only tell their own facet, and I'm not smart enough to connect the dots. Obama promised to end Guantánamo Bay's detentions. I've long wanted to know why that didn't happen. His book Promised Land lists some of the challenges, but left me with more questions. My takeaway is that a cleanup effort that tries to follow the rules is all but impossible when the mess was created by ignoring the rules. In other words, maybe ultimately we have to ignore the rules to cleanup snafus; which is a very scary prospect, right? The 5-4 podcast, about "why the SCOTUS" sucks", has episodes about the ridiculous, contradictory, nonsensical decisions which ultimately allowed these extra-legal detentions. Stuff like Justices, IIRC, not understanding that their prior decisions to ignore habeas corpus prevented detainees from ever appealing. Real facepalm stuff. If the Justices don't even understand their own snafus, what hope do the rest of us noobs have? As an American, Guantánamo Bay is just such an embarrassment, fills me with impotence and despair. So big, so ugly, I can barely comprehend it.

HappySweeney 5y ago
As I recall, congress stopped Obama from shutting down Guantanamo by pulling all funding required to make it happen.
- himinlomax 5y ago
  And he didn't try very hard to go around that. Or at all.
sofixa 5y ago
> Obama promised to to stop Guantánamo Bay's detention. I've long wanted to know why that didn't happen. His book Promised Land lists some of the challenges, but left me with more questions. My takeaway is that a cleanup effort that tries to follow the rules is all but impossible when the mess was created by ignoring the rules. In other words, maybe ultimately we have to ignore the rules to cleanup snafus; which is a very scary prospect, right? Poor excuses. Shut the thing down, free everyone, and give them some sort of compensation in the millions for the horrible conditions they endured. Some of them might end up joining Al Qaeda or whatever, and using that money to fund terrorism, but can anyone really blame them? They were detained illegally and tortured for literally decades. They have every right to be pissed at the US and everything related to them, so if they decide to take it out, it's their prerogative. That's why it was a very stupid idea to begin with.
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  Well, if a freed person is then involved in an attack against America, it'd be political suicide. TBH if you're in politics it's about trade-offs. Following your conscience might mean you get voted out, and having the other side in power would be disastrous for the citizens (e.g. reversal of Obamacare, or now the upcoming "All your uterus are belong to us" thanks to Trump's justices). And the trade-off of "I want to keep the kleptocracy[1] out of power so the average folk don't get fucked even more" vs "I want to do the honourable thing and let these illegally detained foreigners free" weighs sadly against some foreigners. [1] If we work under the premise that the Democrats is, on balance, still working for the people, whereas the GOP is on balance just a cronyist pro-elite party.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > Well, if a freed person is then involved in an attack against America, it'd be political suicide Well, it should be a well deserved and expected reaction. You can't kidnap and torture someone for decades, just release them and hope all is forgotten. Active effort should be made in that regard. And even if they do retaliate, IMHO it's still better morally than leaving them to rot to death.

HappySweeney 5y ago

As I recall, congress stopped Obama from shutting down Guantanamo by pulling all funding required to make it happen.

himinlomax 5y ago
And he didn't try very hard to go around that. Or at all.

sofixa 5y ago

> Obama promised to to stop Guantánamo Bay's detention. I've long wanted to know why that didn't happen. His book Promised Land lists some of the challenges, but left me with more questions. My takeaway is that a cleanup effort that tries to follow the rules is all but impossible when the mess was created by ignoring the rules. In other words, maybe ultimately we have to ignore the rules to cleanup snafus; which is a very scary prospect, right? Poor excuses. Shut the thing down, free everyone, and give them some sort of compensation in the millions for the horrible conditions they endured. Some of them might end up joining Al Qaeda or whatever, and using that money to fund terrorism, but can anyone really blame them? They were detained illegally and tortured for literally decades. They have every right to be pissed at the US and everything related to them, so if they decide to take it out, it's their prerogative. That's why it was a very stupid idea to begin with.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
Well, if a freed person is then involved in an attack against America, it'd be political suicide. TBH if you're in politics it's about trade-offs. Following your conscience might mean you get voted out, and having the other side in power would be disastrous for the citizens (e.g. reversal of Obamacare, or now the upcoming "All your uterus are belong to us" thanks to Trump's justices). And the trade-off of "I want to keep the kleptocracy[1] out of power so the average folk don't get fucked even more" vs "I want to do the honourable thing and let these illegally detained foreigners free" weighs sadly against some foreigners. [1] If we work under the premise that the Democrats is, on balance, still working for the people, whereas the GOP is on balance just a cronyist pro-elite party.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > Well, if a freed person is then involved in an attack against America, it'd be political suicide Well, it should be a well deserved and expected reaction. You can't kidnap and torture someone for decades, just release them and hope all is forgotten. Active effort should be made in that regard. And even if they do retaliate, IMHO it's still better morally than leaving them to rot to death.