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Things like what? I've been running Ubuntu with absolutely no issues for like 13 years. I did my entire university education with an Ubuntu laptop. I'm curio

Things like what? I've been running Ubuntu with absolutely no issues for like 13 years. I did my entire university education with an Ubuntu laptop. I'm curious how people are having 'issues'? Do they constantly mess with things? Buy super obscure hardware?

hvgk 5y ago
I bought an officially supported and qualified laptop as recommended by canonical and the GPU drivers shit the bed at least two times an hour. Power management didn’t work. The battery got shitcanned after an hour. Just no. Lenovo T495 for reference.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  > Warning: Currently this device does not work well under Linux. Please see known issues for unresolved AMDGPU drm bugs in the LTS 5.4.x kernel and more recent kernels such as 5.12.x.
  - hvgk 5y ago
    Exactly. That wasn’t specified when I bought it. It’s a regression.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      Are you saying that regressions only occur on Linux?
    - formerly_proven 5y ago
      Is it actually a regression or did it never really work in the first place? Hardware manufacturers are in my experience pretty unreliable sources when it comes to compatibility and I've had my fair share of issues even with 100% unmodified straight-from-the-factory machines regardless of OS. Edit: I also 'member Dell shipping some of their XPS laptops with Linux preinstalled despite them having missing drivers / functionality.
      - hvgk 5y ago
        It worked fine for three months until a kernel update.
        fsflover 5y ago
        So you should be able to fix that by choosing an older kernel.
        hvgk 5y ago
        And there goes the rabbit hole…
gjsman-1000 5y ago
Every time Linux gets brought up, there's always somebody who says "I've had no issues ever!" Good for you - but it doesn't take super-exotic hardware at all to run into problems. Having problems doesn't make your hardware exotic. I tried running Linux a decade ago and none of them would have Wifi because they had Broadcom cards without some patching and package installs on Ubuntu which didn't come with the packages needed on the ISO. I tried running Linux again only to find that I couldn't use Wayland on my GTX 1050 because NVIDIA. That means I have hardware that doesn't run well on Linux, not that I have exotic hardware. Edit: Also I forget to mention that sleep/hibernate is seemingly always broken whenever I talk to people about Linux. All the time. They don't have exotic hardware.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > it doesn't take super-exotic hardware at all to run into problems Why do people demand that Linux must work on all "not super-exotic" hardware in the world? It's just impossible with their resources. Just get a compatible device.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    > Why do people demand that Linux must work on all "not super-exotic" hardware in the world? Why do Linux people come on threads like this and say that if you have problems, it must be because you have exotic hardware or that it's a really rare issue when it's dirt common? Edit: I guess my point is, the Linux community's definition of "exotic hardware" is extremely broad in real life. It's almost like if Apple called PCs "exotic hardware" for MacOS.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      > it must be because you have exotic hardware I never said that you had exotic hardware. Your hardware is just not designed to be used in this way by the vendor. Why does Linux community (for free) has to invent the workarounds for you to use this machine? Linux is free software. You can improve its source code yourself, or pay someone to do that (unlike with Windows). And yes, your MacOS will certainly not work reliably on a Windows-certified laptop.
jordanrobinson 5y ago
At this point I've spent dozens of hours trying to fix sleep/hibernate on this laptop without success, it's a dell xps 9500, doesn't feel like it should be considered super obscure hardware. Not to mention the occasional bluetooth issues. I appreciate it's the manufacturer's fault but it's still a problem.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > I appreciate it's the manufacturer's fault Is this a manufacturer's fault if you have problems with your Windows on a MacBook? No, it's your fault to use hardware in unintended ways. Same here: get a device designed for Linux.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Dell seems to have issues with sleep/hibernate in general. There was a recent article about how they don't recommend putting a new sleeping laptop in a bag because of modern standby not actually sleeping the laptop.
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    I think their exact words were "If you put your Dell laptop in standby, and then put in a bag, a) it might die b) that voids the warranty".
k8sToGo 5y ago
Simple things like making RGB work on my Logitech keyboard without having to debug why it behaves in a non determinist way. Most of the time things just work on Windows because someone is seeing a business case in working software. I'm sure if more businesses would treat Linux Desktop with higher priority, things would be better.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Linux Desktop does itself no favors in attracting the business world. It is the most fragmented "platform" in common use, is actively hostile to closed source drivers and software, and has no unified application management mechanism. Add in it's abysmal market share (gee, I wonder if any of the above is related to that?) and there's good reason business don't bother with it.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > actively hostile to closed source drivers and software I'm curious, do you have any examples?
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      Linux has no stable driver ABI, meaning if your driver is not open source and mainlined into the kernel, then it breaks frequently. There is no standard mechanism of distributing software outside of any given distro's package manager other than to compile from source. Distros tend not to let people put closed source software in their repos. This has only recently started to change as Flatpak is starting to be more widely adopted; even though other solutions have existed for some time, they've largely been ignored by the Linux Desktop community. Even Flatpak gets a lot of backlash from people who believe the traditional distribution methods are best in part because of the functional requirement for software to be open.

hvgk 5y ago

I bought an officially supported and qualified laptop as recommended by canonical and the GPU drivers shit the bed at least two times an hour. Power management didn’t work. The battery got shitcanned after an hour. Just no. Lenovo T495 for reference.

formerly_proven 5y ago
> Warning: Currently this device does not work well under Linux. Please see known issues for unresolved AMDGPU drm bugs in the LTS 5.4.x kernel and more recent kernels such as 5.12.x.
- hvgk 5y ago
  Exactly. That wasn’t specified when I bought it. It’s a regression.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    Are you saying that regressions only occur on Linux?
  - formerly_proven 5y ago
    Is it actually a regression or did it never really work in the first place? Hardware manufacturers are in my experience pretty unreliable sources when it comes to compatibility and I've had my fair share of issues even with 100% unmodified straight-from-the-factory machines regardless of OS. Edit: I also 'member Dell shipping some of their XPS laptops with Linux preinstalled despite them having missing drivers / functionality.
    - hvgk 5y ago
      It worked fine for three months until a kernel update.
      - fsflover 5y ago
        So you should be able to fix that by choosing an older kernel.
        hvgk 5y ago
        And there goes the rabbit hole…

gjsman-1000 5y ago

Every time Linux gets brought up, there's always somebody who says "I've had no issues ever!" Good for you - but it doesn't take super-exotic hardware at all to run into problems. Having problems doesn't make your hardware exotic. I tried running Linux a decade ago and none of them would have Wifi because they had Broadcom cards without some patching and package installs on Ubuntu which didn't come with the packages needed on the ISO. I tried running Linux again only to find that I couldn't use Wayland on my GTX 1050 because NVIDIA. That means I have hardware that doesn't run well on Linux, not that I have exotic hardware. Edit: Also I forget to mention that sleep/hibernate is seemingly always broken whenever I talk to people about Linux. All the time. They don't have exotic hardware.

fsflover 5y ago
> it doesn't take super-exotic hardware at all to run into problems Why do people demand that Linux must work on all "not super-exotic" hardware in the world? It's just impossible with their resources. Just get a compatible device.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  > Why do people demand that Linux must work on all "not super-exotic" hardware in the world? Why do Linux people come on threads like this and say that if you have problems, it must be because you have exotic hardware or that it's a really rare issue when it's dirt common? Edit: I guess my point is, the Linux community's definition of "exotic hardware" is extremely broad in real life. It's almost like if Apple called PCs "exotic hardware" for MacOS.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    > it must be because you have exotic hardware I never said that you had exotic hardware. Your hardware is just not designed to be used in this way by the vendor. Why does Linux community (for free) has to invent the workarounds for you to use this machine? Linux is free software. You can improve its source code yourself, or pay someone to do that (unlike with Windows). And yes, your MacOS will certainly not work reliably on a Windows-certified laptop.

jordanrobinson 5y ago

At this point I've spent dozens of hours trying to fix sleep/hibernate on this laptop without success, it's a dell xps 9500, doesn't feel like it should be considered super obscure hardware. Not to mention the occasional bluetooth issues. I appreciate it's the manufacturer's fault but it's still a problem.

fsflover 5y ago
> I appreciate it's the manufacturer's fault Is this a manufacturer's fault if you have problems with your Windows on a MacBook? No, it's your fault to use hardware in unintended ways. Same here: get a device designed for Linux.
Mikeb85 5y ago
Dell seems to have issues with sleep/hibernate in general. There was a recent article about how they don't recommend putting a new sleeping laptop in a bag because of modern standby not actually sleeping the laptop.
- formerly_proven 5y ago
  I think their exact words were "If you put your Dell laptop in standby, and then put in a bag, a) it might die b) that voids the warranty".

k8sToGo 5y ago

Simple things like making RGB work on my Logitech keyboard without having to debug why it behaves in a non determinist way. Most of the time things just work on Windows because someone is seeing a business case in working software. I'm sure if more businesses would treat Linux Desktop with higher priority, things would be better.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Linux Desktop does itself no favors in attracting the business world. It is the most fragmented "platform" in common use, is actively hostile to closed source drivers and software, and has no unified application management mechanism. Add in it's abysmal market share (gee, I wonder if any of the above is related to that?) and there's good reason business don't bother with it.
- fsflover 5y ago
  > actively hostile to closed source drivers and software I'm curious, do you have any examples?
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Linux has no stable driver ABI, meaning if your driver is not open source and mainlined into the kernel, then it breaks frequently. There is no standard mechanism of distributing software outside of any given distro's package manager other than to compile from source. Distros tend not to let people put closed source software in their repos. This has only recently started to change as Flatpak is starting to be more widely adopted; even though other solutions have existed for some time, they've largely been ignored by the Linux Desktop community. Even Flatpak gets a lot of backlash from people who believe the traditional distribution methods are best in part because of the functional requirement for software to be open.