5 ms·

This is one of those disappearing details due to innovation. So few people now use flat head screws, it seems the technically “superior” Phillips and Pozidrive

This is one of those disappearing details due to innovation. So few people now use flat head screws, it seems the technically “superior” Phillips and Pozidrive that taken over in all joinery now. As an aside everyone should know the difference between a Phillips and Pozidrive. It should be required teaching in schools to maintain everyone sanity. Pozidrive screws have a small engraved diagonal cross on the head, the driver has an extra ridge in the cross groove. Use the wrong screwdriver in the wrong screw and you will have a horrible time and wreck the screw head. I have my grandfathers flat head screwdrivers and love them. Long shafts to help with alignment and prevent riding out. Lovely big wooden handles to help with torque.

progre 5y ago
Is this specific to woodworking? For general use everyting is Torx where I live. Clearly superior if you have decent bits (throw away those that come with the box of screws, they seem to be made of mud and sawdust).
- samwillis 5y ago
  My experience in the UK. Seeing more and more Torx though. Much prefer it to Pozidrive! Torx really should be used with an electrical screwdriver with a clutch though or you risk snapping the screws if you over tighten. Philips and Pozidrive are designs to ride out before snapping the screw head off.
- GuB-42 5y ago
  In France it is mostly Pozidriv, electronics and small appliances are usually Philips, Ikea is hex, we still see slotted screws but they are a dying breed, Torx is getting more and more popular. Still, when you go to your local hardware store, the kind of cheap screws that are sold in bulk are usually Pozidriv. Torx screws are also available but usually in more expensive, branded, retail packaging.
- Xerneos 5y ago
  Torx seems to be the superior head to me as well. The rest of the country (big chain hardware stores) seem to be still stuck with mostly Philips and Pozidrive.
  - fho 5y ago
    At least for machine screws I buy Torx is easily twice the price of regular socket head screws: [100 'old-school' M3x5 screws](https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolzen/innensechskant-schrauben/zylinderkopf-din-912/din-912-edelstahl-a2/din-912-a2-m3/din-912-a2-m3x5/1207/100-stueck-zylinderkopfschrauben-din-912-a2-m3x5?c=39970 https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolz...) [50 Torx M3x5 screws](https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolzen/torxschrauben/zylinderkopf-iso-14579/iso-14579-a2-tx10-m3/iso-14579-a2-m3x5/2981/50-stueck-zylinderkopfschrauben-iso-14579-a2-m3x5?c=20722 https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolz...)
- GrumpyNl 5y ago
  In Canada i have use squared torques, they are superior. Cant find them anywhere else.
throw0101a 5y ago
> it seems the technically “superior” Phillips and Pozidrive that taken over in all joinery now. Robertson4Life.
- skeeter2020 5y ago
  They definitely have the "meatest" torque-y feeling when you really get your elbow up high and crank into one... Super satisfying and something I wouldn't even dream of attempting with other bits!
- ableal 5y ago
  https://www.woodmagazine.com/wood-supplies/fasteners-hardware/what-are-robertson-screws https://www.woodmagazine.com/wood-supplies/fasteners-hardwar... First I heard of them. Looks like that, in a pinch, a flat-head driver could turn it ...
  - frosted-flakes 5y ago
    Nope. It's a tapered square. One of the few driver bits where you can put a screw on the end of drill, then hang/swing the drill from the screw alone. A slotted driver will not work, at all. (I'm Canadian. Robertson is the most common driver type here, except for imported products.)
- stan_rogers 5y ago
  It is the One True Screw, amen.
  - xattt 5y ago
    Can I interest you in the Torah of Torx?
    - stan_rogers 5y ago
      Torx rather sucks in comparison. Sorry if the truth hurts.
ineedasername 5y ago
>everyone should know the difference between a Phillips and Pozidrive. I'm not sure about that: use of posidrive is somewhat regional. In the UK and Germany for example it's relatively common, while I don't think I have ever seen it "in the wild" in the US. In a browsing big-box home improvement stores I have never noticed them when looking at options, and the half dozen set I've accumulated over the years of screws driver sets that have a dozen bits have never include a posidrive driver. I'm not sure about other areas of the world.
- mauvehaus 5y ago
  Frustratingly, IKEA uses pozi screws in some applications without including a driver. In the US, that poses some problems. The diagonal bracing on their beds requires running some self-tapping pozis into metal, and it is nigh impossible to do without the proper driver.
  - tablespoon 5y ago
    >>> As an aside everyone should know the difference between a Phillips and Pozidrive. It should be required teaching in schools to maintain everyone sanity. >> I'm not sure about that: use of posidrive is somewhat regional. In the UK and Germany for example it's relatively common, while I don't think I have ever seen it "in the wild" in the US. > Frustratingly, IKEA uses pozi screws in some applications without including a driver. IIRC, IKEA uses them in pretty much all applications and almost never includes a driver. An American who hasn't specifically been taught about Pozidrive will almost certainly confuse them for Philips and have a frustrating experience, unless they're so non-handy or pressed for time that they bought their tools from IKEA as well. It's a weird situation: they're very unusual, except in one extremely popular area which is also the only place where many people will use tools.
mhb 5y ago
Phillips is designed to cam out: https://www.ifixit.com/News/9903/bit-history-the-phillips https://www.ifixit.com/News/9903/bit-history-the-phillips
- progre 5y ago
  The cam-out feature maybe made sense back in the dark ages when the people used actual screwdrivers. Now, in the age of cheap lithium battery power tools, this feature is less handy. Even with the torqe-limiter enabled on the Ryobi I have ruined many bits and even more screws due to cam-out.
aardvark179 5y ago
And JIS screws look very like Phillips, but are also subtly different.
btbuildem 5y ago
You can "clock" these as well. They have one more axis of symmetry than flatheads, but that just makes clocking easier.
dosman33 5y ago
One fun thing I enjoyed about IBM Global Services were some of the in-house developed tools we had access to. One tool they had which became invaluable was the screw starter for flat-head screws. This was nothing like other screw starters commercially available, this worked beautifully and was elegantly simple. It was a thin brass rod about 8" long with a pair of thin steel lips out each end which started out in-contact with each other. When you shoved the lips into the slot on the screw it shoved the lips back into the brass rod and caused them to spread open and grab onto the slot from the inside. It had enough strength to survive dropping the tool on the ground and not release the screw. The tool was strong enough that you could actually fully tighten smaller screws without switching to a screwdriver. There were two sizes of the screw starter and we all kept them stashed everywhere. Once you got used to using this tool then it became clear slotted screws were superior and sooo much easier to work with than Phillips/et. al. There were never problems with a screw dangling off of a magnetic tip when held sideways, or non-ferrous screws not sticking. Another in-house tool was the very simple "thumb saver" for screwing in PC peripheral connectors like VGA and DB9 cables. It was an 6" plastic tube with 1/2" slotted interior ends which fit over the thumb screws on the thumb screws. There was a different diameter hole on each end and it tapered to a smaller diameter as the hole went deeper. It made it cake to reach in and remove a single set of thumb screws when the back of a system was jammed up with lots of other cables in the way or if you had giant man hands. You could also easily over-torque the screws when re-attaching so guys had to be careful using them. The SSA screw driver was another one, this was a custom screw driver for IBM's SSA storage system. My recollection was that IBM had proposed SSA to be the SCSI III spec and was rejected, so they ran with it anyway for use with RS/6000 (pSeries/System P/whatever). It was a serial implementation of SCSI and had these narrow blue/black cables and could transfer up to 40MB/s. The cables were a PITA to deal with as they were small and required the use of the screw driver because there was very little space to work around each connector so no thumb-screws. There was nothing terribly unique about the screw driver, it was slotted but had a sleeve tube shrouding the tip to keep the screw driver from slipping off. They required a bit of torque to fully tighten, but not too much. Occasionally some guy got the brilliant idea to cut the handle off one and jam it in a power driver. However no screw drivers we easily had access to had a low enough torque setting for this and these geniuses would usually end up breaking lots of connector ports on SSA arrays.

progre 5y ago

Is this specific to woodworking? For general use everyting is Torx where I live. Clearly superior if you have decent bits (throw away those that come with the box of screws, they seem to be made of mud and sawdust).

samwillis 5y ago
My experience in the UK. Seeing more and more Torx though. Much prefer it to Pozidrive! Torx really should be used with an electrical screwdriver with a clutch though or you risk snapping the screws if you over tighten. Philips and Pozidrive are designs to ride out before snapping the screw head off.
GuB-42 5y ago
In France it is mostly Pozidriv, electronics and small appliances are usually Philips, Ikea is hex, we still see slotted screws but they are a dying breed, Torx is getting more and more popular. Still, when you go to your local hardware store, the kind of cheap screws that are sold in bulk are usually Pozidriv. Torx screws are also available but usually in more expensive, branded, retail packaging.
Xerneos 5y ago
Torx seems to be the superior head to me as well. The rest of the country (big chain hardware stores) seem to be still stuck with mostly Philips and Pozidrive.
- fho 5y ago
  At least for machine screws I buy Torx is easily twice the price of regular socket head screws: [100 'old-school' M3x5 screws](https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolzen/innensechskant-schrauben/zylinderkopf-din-912/din-912-edelstahl-a2/din-912-a2-m3/din-912-a2-m3x5/1207/100-stueck-zylinderkopfschrauben-din-912-a2-m3x5?c=39970 https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolz...) [50 Torx M3x5 screws](https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolzen/torxschrauben/zylinderkopf-iso-14579/iso-14579-a2-tx10-m3/iso-14579-a2-m3x5/2981/50-stueck-zylinderkopfschrauben-iso-14579-a2-m3x5?c=20722 https://www.screwsandmore.de/de/sortiment/schrauben-und-bolz...)
GrumpyNl 5y ago
In Canada i have use squared torques, they are superior. Cant find them anywhere else.

throw0101a 5y ago

> it seems the technically “superior” Phillips and Pozidrive that taken over in all joinery now. Robertson4Life.

skeeter2020 5y ago
They definitely have the "meatest" torque-y feeling when you really get your elbow up high and crank into one... Super satisfying and something I wouldn't even dream of attempting with other bits!
ableal 5y ago
https://www.woodmagazine.com/wood-supplies/fasteners-hardware/what-are-robertson-screws https://www.woodmagazine.com/wood-supplies/fasteners-hardwar... First I heard of them. Looks like that, in a pinch, a flat-head driver could turn it ...
- frosted-flakes 5y ago
  Nope. It's a tapered square. One of the few driver bits where you can put a screw on the end of drill, then hang/swing the drill from the screw alone. A slotted driver will not work, at all. (I'm Canadian. Robertson is the most common driver type here, except for imported products.)
stan_rogers 5y ago
It is the One True Screw, amen.
- xattt 5y ago
  Can I interest you in the Torah of Torx?
  - stan_rogers 5y ago
    Torx rather sucks in comparison. Sorry if the truth hurts.

ineedasername 5y ago

>everyone should know the difference between a Phillips and Pozidrive. I'm not sure about that: use of posidrive is somewhat regional. In the UK and Germany for example it's relatively common, while I don't think I have ever seen it "in the wild" in the US. In a browsing big-box home improvement stores I have never noticed them when looking at options, and the half dozen set I've accumulated over the years of screws driver sets that have a dozen bits have never include a posidrive driver. I'm not sure about other areas of the world.

mauvehaus 5y ago
Frustratingly, IKEA uses pozi screws in some applications without including a driver. In the US, that poses some problems. The diagonal bracing on their beds requires running some self-tapping pozis into metal, and it is nigh impossible to do without the proper driver.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  >>> As an aside everyone should know the difference between a Phillips and Pozidrive. It should be required teaching in schools to maintain everyone sanity. >> I'm not sure about that: use of posidrive is somewhat regional. In the UK and Germany for example it's relatively common, while I don't think I have ever seen it "in the wild" in the US. > Frustratingly, IKEA uses pozi screws in some applications without including a driver. IIRC, IKEA uses them in pretty much all applications and almost never includes a driver. An American who hasn't specifically been taught about Pozidrive will almost certainly confuse them for Philips and have a frustrating experience, unless they're so non-handy or pressed for time that they bought their tools from IKEA as well. It's a weird situation: they're very unusual, except in one extremely popular area which is also the only place where many people will use tools.

mhb 5y ago

Phillips is designed to cam out: https://www.ifixit.com/News/9903/bit-history-the-phillips https://www.ifixit.com/News/9903/bit-history-the-phillips

progre 5y ago
The cam-out feature maybe made sense back in the dark ages when the people used actual screwdrivers. Now, in the age of cheap lithium battery power tools, this feature is less handy. Even with the torqe-limiter enabled on the Ryobi I have ruined many bits and even more screws due to cam-out.

aardvark179 5y ago

And JIS screws look very like Phillips, but are also subtly different.

btbuildem 5y ago

You can "clock" these as well. They have one more axis of symmetry than flatheads, but that just makes clocking easier.

dosman33 5y ago

One fun thing I enjoyed about IBM Global Services were some of the in-house developed tools we had access to. One tool they had which became invaluable was the screw starter for flat-head screws. This was nothing like other screw starters commercially available, this worked beautifully and was elegantly simple. It was a thin brass rod about 8" long with a pair of thin steel lips out each end which started out in-contact with each other. When you shoved the lips into the slot on the screw it shoved the lips back into the brass rod and caused them to spread open and grab onto the slot from the inside. It had enough strength to survive dropping the tool on the ground and not release the screw. The tool was strong enough that you could actually fully tighten smaller screws without switching to a screwdriver. There were two sizes of the screw starter and we all kept them stashed everywhere. Once you got used to using this tool then it became clear slotted screws were superior and sooo much easier to work with than Phillips/et. al. There were never problems with a screw dangling off of a magnetic tip when held sideways, or non-ferrous screws not sticking. Another in-house tool was the very simple "thumb saver" for screwing in PC peripheral connectors like VGA and DB9 cables. It was an 6" plastic tube with 1/2" slotted interior ends which fit over the thumb screws on the thumb screws. There was a different diameter hole on each end and it tapered to a smaller diameter as the hole went deeper. It made it cake to reach in and remove a single set of thumb screws when the back of a system was jammed up with lots of other cables in the way or if you had giant man hands. You could also easily over-torque the screws when re-attaching so guys had to be careful using them. The SSA screw driver was another one, this was a custom screw driver for IBM's SSA storage system. My recollection was that IBM had proposed SSA to be the SCSI III spec and was rejected, so they ran with it anyway for use with RS/6000 (pSeries/System P/whatever). It was a serial implementation of SCSI and had these narrow blue/black cables and could transfer up to 40MB/s. The cables were a PITA to deal with as they were small and required the use of the screw driver because there was very little space to work around each connector so no thumb-screws. There was nothing terribly unique about the screw driver, it was slotted but had a sleeve tube shrouding the tip to keep the screw driver from slipping off. They required a bit of torque to fully tighten, but not too much. Occasionally some guy got the brilliant idea to cut the handle off one and jam it in a power driver. However no screw drivers we easily had access to had a low enough torque setting for this and these geniuses would usually end up breaking lots of connector ports on SSA arrays.