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Is Windows even an operating system any more? An operating system is software that is supposed to make it easy to run other applications on your computer. Here
by robalni 5y ago
Is Windows even an operating system any more? An operating system is software that is supposed to make it easy to run other applications on your computer. Here it seems like Windows is trying to prevent people from running the applications they want. That's the opposite of what an operating system is for.
- hvgk 5y agoI wouldn’t know these days. A while back I decided to break up with anything I was in an abusive relationship with.
- catlikesshrimp 5y agoIn what planet are you living these days?
- fsflover 5y agoPlanet "Linux"?
- k8sToGo 5y agoI would not call that abuse free, though. Sometimes it is quite frustrating to get things working on Linux.
- hulitu 5y agoAt least in Linux you get them working. In windows you enjoy the breakage.
- hvgk 5y agoTo be fair hardware and driver problems never bothered me on windows. They mostly just worked and stayed working. Apart from printers which are a shit show.
- vetinari 5y agoI see you never tried Intel ANS for VLAN or link aggregation support ;).
- hvgk 5y agoDo you have to install the drivers again every time you need to use the network? That’s where I got to with my Laserjet pro on windows 10. I usually just printed it to a PDF and emailed it to my phone and printed it from there rather than fix it.
- fsflover 5y agoIf you choose supported hardware, it will get much better (just like with Windows or MacOS).
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoLinux often has problems working with software too. It's great if you like using a Linux Desktop man, but don't pretend like there aren't any problems over there the same as there is in any OS.
- fsflover 5y agoI didn't say it would be perfect. Software problems obviously depend on which software you are using (and how).
- ajvs 5y agoThe parent comment however is correct - it's not abusive, instead sometimes incompatible or buggy.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y agoI think that's a bit debatable actually, but I will concede that it isn't abusive in the same way that Microsoft is.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoDoes it? I've seen people get System76s in 2021 and still have problems.
- fsflover 5y agoWhich problems? Everything is flawless on my Librem 15.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoLibrem 15 is Purism, not System76.
- Mikeb85 5y agoThings like what? I've been running Ubuntu with absolutely no issues for like 13 years. I did my entire university education with an Ubuntu laptop. I'm curious how people are having 'issues'? Do they constantly mess with things? Buy super obscure hardware?
- hvgk 5y agoI bought an officially supported and qualified laptop as recommended by canonical and the GPU drivers shit the bed at least two times an hour. Power management didn’t work. The battery got shitcanned after an hour. Just no. Lenovo T495 for reference.
- formerly_proven 5y ago> Warning: Currently this device does not work well under Linux. Please see known issues for unresolved AMDGPU drm bugs in the LTS 5.4.x kernel and more recent kernels such as 5.12.x.
- hvgk 5y agoExactly. That wasn’t specified when I bought it. It’s a regression.
- fsflover 5y agoAre you saying that regressions only occur on Linux?
- formerly_proven 5y agoIs it actually a regression or did it never really work in the first place? Hardware manufacturers are in my experience pretty unreliable sources when it comes to compatibility and I've had my fair share of issues even with 100% unmodified straight-from-the-factory machines regardless of OS. Edit: I also 'member Dell shipping some of their XPS laptops with Linux preinstalled despite them having missing drivers / functionality.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoLinux is what you use when you like working on your computer more than with your computer.
- piaste 5y agoLinux will annoy you due to honest-to-God bugs, misconfigurations, or other genuine mistakes. The authors of the software would like it to work effortlessly and they're trying their best, they just didn't quite get there. As a developer, I can sympathize and put up with the occasional afternoon spent hunting down firmware patches or whatever. Windows >= 8 will intentionally annoy you because Microsoft is trying to squeeze as much money and data as they can from you. It is a truly hostile piece of software and I resent each single minute spent trying to turn off the malware far more than I do all the hours spent clashing with the Linux bluetooth stack or whatever.
- k8sToGo 5y agoI'm definitely not blaming the developers. At least with Linux I can talk to them through various channels directly or even fix stuff myself.
- hvgk 5y agoNo that’s emotionally abusive. Just when you’ve got it all working, one apt update and your GPU drivers start dumping core. And when you close the lid on your laptop it’s like playing Russian roulette. On the desktop it’s needy, brittle and like wading in sewage. I use an ass end iPad. I can hear the laughing now but it’s the least abusive and time consuming thing I own. It just works and keeps out of the way. It’s also not perfect but it’s less imperfect than all the other options. Edit: to note I spend a hell of a lot of time wrangling hundreds of Linux boxes. I don’t like taking work home.
- fsflover 5y ago> And when you close the lid on your laptop it’s like playing Russian roulette. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29430111 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29430111
- kop316 5y ago> Just when you’ve got it all working, one apt update and your GPU drivers start dumping core. And when you close the lid on your laptop it’s like playing Russian roulette. On the desktop it’s needy, brittle and like wading in sewage. My spouse needed a new laptop, and I decided to get a laptop with coreboot/FOSS EC Firmware on it (A Purism L14). She also needed windows, and I was told that it should suport Windows through Coreboot. Since Purism wrote properly behaving UEFI and a properly behaving EC Firmware, Windows actually worked out of the box, and worked better on this laptop than I have seen for most vendors that actually support Windows. UEFI on it also behaves wonderfully. I see that and compare it to my current laptop where half the time, I cannot even boot into the UEFI menu (as it doesn't register my keybnoard presses) and have to rely on GRUB to get into the menu. I say that to say, when you buy a laptop/motherboard whose firmware is slightly better than hot garbage, of course Linux will have issues with it! Most of the time Windows is barely better than Linux with half of these things since their Windows "drivers" are a hotpatched mess.
- hvgk 5y agoI bought my spouse a MacBook Air. It just worked and I haven’t had to unfuck it once.
- nicolaslem 5y agoI am so spoiled by the Linux/Debian/Gnome OS which lets me pick and use the tools and workflows that work for me. Windows and iOS are the exact opposite of that, they constantly push me towards their "ecosystem". Opting out of those is a constant battle.
- swiley 5y agoHave you tried editing text files on iOS and copying them to another machine without an online service? On every other OS you have OpenSSH and some text editor installed already, on iOS the easiest thing to do is install iSH but it's still pretty painful since it's slow and can't see everything.
- forgotmypw17 5y agoI operate my own pastebin for this purpose, running software which works in almost any browser.
- duduehrcyc 5y agoI'm very pro-linux by personal preference, but I always find it silly when Linux tools are billed as good. They're powerful certainly, but what we as a community should hear when someone remarks "Can Windows really be called an operating system?" is that our tooling is so supremely bad that, despite its raw power, people would rather deal with a locked down ad-ware mess than have to consider our tools. We're not spoiled, we're just deviants.
- rhn_mk1 5y ago"applications they want" is kind of hard to convey though. If you run a game with a rootkit, is that something you "want"? If you open a malicious document and it ends up encrypting your data, did you "want" it? Do people who install toolbars "want" the spyware or cryptocurrency miners that comes with them? A modern operating system tries to guess what the users "want", because that's by no means clear. Of course, it's a matter of judgement, and judgement comes with its own problems.
- scambier 5y agoWe're not talking about rootkits or malware, but about a default browser application, and a default search engine.
- rhn_mk1 5y agoThat's why I mention judgement: we expect OS vendors to make a judgement (that fact is what the top post seems to be missing). And Microsoft makes a bad judgement now.
- catlikesshrimp 5y agoMicrosoft isn't forcing bing as the default search engine because their judgement is poor. They do it out of malice.
- rhn_mk1 5y agoRelying on judgement opens the door to malice IMO. But we agree, and it's only a matter of wording.
- yourusername 5y agoWith edge now actively promoting "buy now pay later" services i'm not sure microsoft still gets to claim they are protecting users from their own poor choices.
- robalni 5y ago
- sva_ 5y agoIt appears like ransomware runs just fine on it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Crontab 5y agoIt's not just Windows - the whole commercial OS system market is going to shit. Operating systems are now treated as nothing more than a gateway to online services. Many commercial operating systems now require Internet access to obtain a working installation and some require an online account for things like creating a user account or adding applications. And then there are things like forced telemetry and forced system updates. I personally don't like any of this.
- kamranjon 5y agoCan you provide an example of an OS that requires internet for a working base system? I can't think of any off the top of my head.
- gjsman-1000 5y agoEdit: Misread question. Windows 11 Home Edition. You can't set up without a Microsoft Account, and the disabling Wifi/Ethernet trick has been patched.
- ludamad 5y agoThat's funny. When I heard it mentioned the speculation was they might add a more obvious way. Good they "fixed that bug"
- Crontab 5y agoApple's iDevices and T2/M1 Macs all require Internet access to finish their setup. Windows 11 Home requires Internet as a Microsoft account is needed during setup. Unless there is a workaround that I haven't read about.
- rewgs 5y ago> Apple's iDevices and T2/M1 Macs all require Internet access to finish their setup. If by "finish" you mean "log into iCloud," then yes, but that goes without saying. You can absolutely have a working device without an internet connection.
- agumonkey 5y agoDon't mistake concepts and reality. Windows has always been a bridge between hardware and sales. It was the platform that MS made so dev and users would depend on to meet.