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I can't believe people still think that mass vaccinations is not part of the solution Vaccination is of course imperfect and cannot be the sole measure, but we

I can't believe people still think that mass vaccinations is not part of the solution Vaccination is of course imperfect and cannot be the sole measure, but we can't achieve R < 1 without a lot of it.

account42 5y ago
> we can't achieve R < 1 without them. So then what happened summer 2020?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  Are you saying that we shouldn't vaccinate, because strict lockdowns worked, against the COVID-19 original strain, for a while? It's technically true that this worked then, but 2020 is gone, not to return. a) new COVID strains were inevitable and b) prolonged strict lockdowns unpalatable and c) mass vaccination has a huge benefit. As part of a multi-pronged strategy, of course. Depending on only one measure, be it lockdown or vaccination, is not going to work.
disambiguation 5y ago
I can't believe people still think after 2 years we're at a point technologically and logistically that we can control nature and just make this "go away". Delta came out of India. Omicron came out of South Africa. How do mandates in the West stop variants elsewhere? And variants aside, the vaccinated are still getting sick and dying at significant rates [1]. This vaccine is not the slam-dunk our "experts" promised. Until some miracle cure comes along, R < 1 is simply not possible. If you think full vaccination is a necessary goal despite all this, OK fine. You know what might go a long way in terms of achieving mass vaccination? Open sourcing the vaccine recipe. Not just the RNA sequence. The whole recipe. This should be a no-brainer. Governments have no qualms with mandating lockdowns, masks, and vaccines for the masses.. but for some reason they hit the brakes when it comes to mandates for pharma. Not only is this a good idea in terms of improving supply side logistics, but also for the sake of re-building trust. But no, common sense is too hard and "blame and shame" is too easy. Being unvaccinated does not harm the vaccinated. Hospital collapse has been liminal for 2 years now, it's a manufactured crisis. Instead of bolstering our healthcare staff and paying our front line workers more, we have done.. the exact opposite. We funnel tons of money to pharma, while frontline workers have effectively had their pay cut in half. We're quite literally being force fed lies. But I guess that doesn't matter because at the end of the day the Milgram experiment prevails and all these attempts to question the narrative and hold authority accountable is pointless. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1025358/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-41.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... page 15
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  > Being unvaccinated does not harm the vaccinated. This is, on average over large numbers, not correct. Higher rates of disease spread harms everyone, the vaccinated included. > This vaccine is not the slam-dunk our "experts" promised. Which expert promised you that? > it's a manufactured crisis ... We're quite literally being force fed lies ... Milgram experiment ... question the narrative Cranks write like this. That is a shame as some of your other points are very correct, particularly around the need for Intellectual property waiver, which some have been calling for for some time, to no avail (1). BTW, they don't generally call it "open sourcing" in that field. Hospitals genuinely are in crisis and doing difficult triaging, anyone working in them can tell you that. 1) https://reliefweb.int/report/world/time-runs-out-break-trips-waiver-stalemate-protesters-us-and-eu-embassies-south-africa https://reliefweb.int/report/world/time-runs-out-break-trips...
  - disambiguation 5y ago
    >> Which expert promised you that? https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronavirus-vaccine-prevent-transmissions-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronav... > Moderna's chief medical officer, Tal Zaks, said last month that he believed it was likely the vaccine would prevent transmission but warned that there was not yet "sufficient evidence" of it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccine-walensky.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccin... > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday walked back controversial comments made by its director, Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, suggesting that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus never become infected or transmit the virus to others. > Cranks write like this. Apologies I'm new to being a social pariah, being under pseudo house arrest, and psychosis in general. I don't want hospitals to collapse. I'm afraid if we give up this freedom now, we'll never get it back. I'm afraid of the unknown and putting my life in the hands of people (our dear leaders) that really have never cared about my health before. Even now its not about care for my own health, but for "the greater good".
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

account42 5y ago

> we can't achieve R < 1 without them. So then what happened summer 2020?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
Are you saying that we shouldn't vaccinate, because strict lockdowns worked, against the COVID-19 original strain, for a while? It's technically true that this worked then, but 2020 is gone, not to return. a) new COVID strains were inevitable and b) prolonged strict lockdowns unpalatable and c) mass vaccination has a huge benefit. As part of a multi-pronged strategy, of course. Depending on only one measure, be it lockdown or vaccination, is not going to work.

disambiguation 5y ago

I can't believe people still think after 2 years we're at a point technologically and logistically that we can control nature and just make this "go away". Delta came out of India. Omicron came out of South Africa. How do mandates in the West stop variants elsewhere? And variants aside, the vaccinated are still getting sick and dying at significant rates [1]. This vaccine is not the slam-dunk our "experts" promised. Until some miracle cure comes along, R < 1 is simply not possible. If you think full vaccination is a necessary goal despite all this, OK fine. You know what might go a long way in terms of achieving mass vaccination? Open sourcing the vaccine recipe. Not just the RNA sequence. The whole recipe. This should be a no-brainer. Governments have no qualms with mandating lockdowns, masks, and vaccines for the masses.. but for some reason they hit the brakes when it comes to mandates for pharma. Not only is this a good idea in terms of improving supply side logistics, but also for the sake of re-building trust. But no, common sense is too hard and "blame and shame" is too easy. Being unvaccinated does not harm the vaccinated. Hospital collapse has been liminal for 2 years now, it's a manufactured crisis. Instead of bolstering our healthcare staff and paying our front line workers more, we have done.. the exact opposite. We funnel tons of money to pharma, while frontline workers have effectively had their pay cut in half. We're quite literally being force fed lies. But I guess that doesn't matter because at the end of the day the Milgram experiment prevails and all these attempts to question the narrative and hold authority accountable is pointless. [1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1025358/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-41.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... page 15

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
> Being unvaccinated does not harm the vaccinated. This is, on average over large numbers, not correct. Higher rates of disease spread harms everyone, the vaccinated included. > This vaccine is not the slam-dunk our "experts" promised. Which expert promised you that? > it's a manufactured crisis ... We're quite literally being force fed lies ... Milgram experiment ... question the narrative Cranks write like this. That is a shame as some of your other points are very correct, particularly around the need for Intellectual property waiver, which some have been calling for for some time, to no avail (1). BTW, they don't generally call it "open sourcing" in that field. Hospitals genuinely are in crisis and doing difficult triaging, anyone working in them can tell you that. 1) https://reliefweb.int/report/world/time-runs-out-break-trips-waiver-stalemate-protesters-us-and-eu-embassies-south-africa https://reliefweb.int/report/world/time-runs-out-break-trips...
- disambiguation 5y ago
  >> Which expert promised you that? https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronavirus-vaccine-prevent-transmissions-2020-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/who-says-no-evidence-coronav... > Moderna's chief medical officer, Tal Zaks, said last month that he believed it was likely the vaccine would prevent transmission but warned that there was not yet "sufficient evidence" of it. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccine-walensky.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccin... > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on Thursday walked back controversial comments made by its director, Dr. Rochelle P. Walensky, suggesting that people who are vaccinated against the coronavirus never become infected or transmit the virus to others. > Cranks write like this. Apologies I'm new to being a social pariah, being under pseudo house arrest, and psychosis in general. I don't want hospitals to collapse. I'm afraid if we give up this freedom now, we'll never get it back. I'm afraid of the unknown and putting my life in the hands of people (our dear leaders) that really have never cared about my health before. Even now its not about care for my own health, but for "the greater good".
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago