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Windows urges users to use Bing same way as urgent security warnings
- kreeben 5y agoNadella: Stop what you're doing. Time for step three. MS devs: But sir, that would mean we extinguish our own OS ecosystem, our bread and butter, the thing we build everything upon, the reason why people love us. Nadella: Do it! I only know 1-2-3.
- 1_player 5y agoYeah, I don't understand how people say the heavy push towards Edge, crappy addons and pervasive analytics is some middle-manager that needs to increase their performance metrics, and not an executive order coming from the top. As if Nadella is the reason why Microsoft has been gaining mind-share and good will with developers, but Windows becoming more and more spyware has nothing to do with him at all. It's all part of their internal strategy, and it's coming from Satya Nadella himself. If he doesn't know what's going on at his company, that's even more damning for him.
- kreeben 5y agoOf course it is coming from Satya. Of course it is. Of course. Satya seems to believe AI is the new cloud. To businesses he speaks about how AI improves his software, how it makes it smarter, more inherently customizable to each and every company's needs and in doing so he's riding the AI wave, perfectly. Satya decides to create an Edge wave. Make Edge default in all OS related hyper text. Then he rides the Edge wave with BNPL. Then he talks to the Bing team. They're not getting enough attention, they say. I'll fix that, Satya says. Then he talks to the Windows team. "I need to ride your wave, baby", he says.
- sofixa 5y agoMicrosoft going back to its old ways. Hopefully this time when they get slapped by regulators it ends this type of behaviour once and for all (break them up into Windows and enterprise software; Azure; Office 365; Surface).
- Nullabillity 5y agoMeet the new Microsoft, same as the old Microsoft.
- dmz73 5y agoThey have seen Google, Apple and other tech players get away with it for years with no repercussions and large number of users even defending their favourite overlords. Does "its their platform, they can do what they want on it" sound familiar? This is the end result, the precedent has been set and we are all going to pay for it in the coming years.
- dustinmoris 5y agoI have been using Safari and Firefox for years. Never have I got a pop-up in Safari when I visited the Chrome website to tell me that I should stay on Safari. Strange, because you say that Apple has been doing this for years yet it has completely escaped me! Also, never have I seen a pop-up in iOS to tell me to use Apple Maps when I opened or downloaded Google Maps. Again, very strange, because you are claiming that Apple is doing the same disgusting tactics as Microsoft, yet I have never felt as an iOS or macOS user to be bullied into using Apple Maps.
- izacus 5y agoI don't know what you were looking at, but my Mac spams me via notifications to advertise use of Safari.
- Nullabillity 5y agoHow do you download Firefox on iOS? Real Firefox, not just a Safari reskin.
- dustinmoris 5y agoWhy do you ask about iOS? How do you download Firefox in a Tesla? How do you download Firefox on a Nintendo Gameboy? Those are special devices which have special requirements. I wouldn't compare that to a computer. On my laptop it's super easy. I opened Safari, went to the Firefox website, then downloaded it. At no point whatsoever did Apple bully me into not downloading Firefox.
- 1cvmask 5y agoOld habits die hard. Corporate culture and mindsets often remain the same despite the smooth verbiage of Satya Nadella who was an insider anyway. Credit goes to him to duping many in the tech community on fundamental change which is now obviously window dressing.
- fsflover 5y agoRelated recent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29415031 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29415031.
- fsflover 5y agoFrom the comments: > I'm still waiting for Microsoft to let me change the default search engine in Notepad. Hopefully they add macros too.
- thejosh 5y agoThey also show a warning in edge/bing when you google "google chrome". Must be their highest search term :-).
- reincarnate0x14 5y agoWorld's most popular way to download Firefox!
- progbits 5y agoCould you please share a screenshot of that warning? I'm unable to reproduce it. I don't have access to Edge, maybe it only happens there? I'm just curious to see what it says.
- willis936 5y agoSince this has popped up I have started reaching for mozilla.org directly. Spooky times we live in where I trust so little of the sofware I run. How long until default hosts file redirects mozilla.org to bing.com?
- coolso 5y agoGoogle has engaged in similar tactics across all of their major platforms for years and years, it’s how Chrome catapulted into the top spot in the Blink of an eye. At one point you couldn’t visit any of their top sites without them begging you to download it and telling you it was the best browser ever. Whether you were searching for a browser or not.
- traspler 5y agoThis has been the case in Windows 10 for at least a year.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Croftengea 5y agoMicrosoft is shooting themselves in the foot here. Who will take real security warnings seriously after that?
- reincarnate0x14 5y agoThat ship sailed years ago. Windows has trained people that all system dialogue boxes are a choice between "Use my computer" and "Don't use my computer."
- formerly_proven 5y agoClassic example in security UX how it's not done.
- krylon 5y agoHave other operating systems done a better job, though? UI/UX is not something I can claim to be good at, but getting it right when it comes to security is difficult.
- reincarnate0x14 5y agoAndroid, as an example, will at least tell what broad class of elevated privilege a program wants/needs so someone can make a guess as to whether or not that makes any sense. The worst part of the whole farce of Windows access control is that NT has a rich role-based security model that can apply granular controls to nearly any type of system object, but absolutely none of that is exposed in normal Windows user interaction and UAC is a completely separate band-aid that interacts with the ACLs in strange and often surprising ways.
- krylon 5y agoGood point. I was thinking of old-school desktop and server operating systems. Having worked as a Windows admin for a couple of years, I think that is the most tragic aspect of Microsoft's software ecosystem. There is so much there that is inaccessible thanks to poor UI, poor or nonexistent documentation, or "hiding in plain sight" by being scattered across some dated UI, a few undocumented CLI utilities and a couple of obscure Registry keys; and maybe a config file, too, but you need to know where to look. To this day, I feel the urge to weep when I consider that Microsoft's often expensive software does not come with decent manual, while Free/Net/OpenBSD are free as in free speech and free beer, and they have superb documentation. If I were more paranoid, I might think is serves mainly to keep the countless companies offering consulting, training, and support in business.
- robalni 5y agoIs Windows even an operating system any more? An operating system is software that is supposed to make it easy to run other applications on your computer. Here it seems like Windows is trying to prevent people from running the applications they want. That's the opposite of what an operating system is for.
- hvgk 5y agoI wouldn’t know these days. A while back I decided to break up with anything I was in an abusive relationship with.
- catlikesshrimp 5y agoIn what planet are you living these days?
- causi 5y agoMan I miss the days when Windows didn't treat me like an easily-exploited idiot. I used to get so excited when the new Windows came out, and followed its development like a true fan. I wish I could feel the same way I did the first time I installed Windows 95, 2000, 7.
- discreteevent 5y agoI started programming Windows 3.1 in C with the Charles Petzold book. (I have a sentimental attachment to it because of that). Then NT came out, what an operating system! But just a few months ago I switched the home PC to linux. Windows is just a big ball of shit now. Along with all the adware they had some office quickstarter service that was using 100% disk (known issue but no sign of a fix - I don't have an SDD so maybe they just decided not to bother with that segment of the market). I would disable the service but every update it would end up enabled again. I've no regrets. The linux experience is just so calm and functional.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- gjsman-1000 5y ago> Windows didn't treat me like an easily-exploited idiot. What if, horror of horrors, this is because most Windows users actually are easily-exploited idiots...
- durnygbur 5y agoI had moved my computer life away from Microsoft ecosystem long time ago, then away from Google. I'm happier person now. In case in a workplace I'm forced to use Windows I pass on the opportunity.
- greatgib 5y agoAh ah ah, so much pleasure I have seeing that! For all the persons here that were saying that it is ok to use MS soft and cloud products, vscode, ... and let them become big stakeholders of OSS stacks, because they are not the same as they used to be... And haters are just stuck in the past or trolls...
- bovermyer 5y agoI wouldn't use Windows at all, but I'm a gamer, and that means Windows. (yes, yes, I know, but the games I play tend to not do well with Linux... some will even ban your account because they misidentify you as using cheat software)
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- ajvs 5y agoThe compromise I've found is cloud gaming whilst on Linux for those few Windows-only. Even for competitive FPS and MOBAs GeForce NOW runs great for me.
- riidom 5y agoIt's improving recently though, e.g. see here: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/11/steam-play-proton-6-3-8-battleye-ceg-drm-more-games/ https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/11/steam-play-proton-6-3-... Imo worth watching the space, also there is protonDB for checking your individual favorites: https://www.protondb.com https://www.protondb.com
- luciusdomitius 5y agoSeriously, the company which broght the term FUD into mainstream use and is behind the Halloween documents[0] is acting unethically towards its cusomers. Am I allowed not to be surprised? 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halloween_documents
- formerly_proven 5y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251775 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29251775
- bennyelv 5y agoI’m intrigued why companies are fighting so hard over what really should be a simple/boring commodity bit of software. There must be a good reason for it, given the huge amount of investment. What’s the game of 4-d chess that I’m not seeing?
- swiley 5y agoSystem software gives you a ton of control over the user. It's easy to say "oops that doesn't work" when they use apps that don't make you money or give you more control. With an app the user would just install something else but switching OSes means work, not just installation but adopting the differing paradigms.
- willis936 5y agoAsk the same of adtech. The attention economy has wealth in mindshare. No one knows who IBM is but everyone knows who Microsoft is for one reason: everyone runs Windows.
- jamiethompson 5y agoIs it 1998 again?
- usrusr 5y agoThrowback Friday, apparently. I'm almost disappointed that Firefox doesn't Substitut hn orange with the old /. petrol for a page with this content.
- marcodiego 5y agoUgly. Hope it encourages users to consider safari relationship with iOS.
- awruko 5y agoIf I type "download firefox" in edge/bing, the first thing at the top is foxload.com with a low contrast Ad marker. When I ask edge/bing "is foxload.com safe", the very fist thing says: "Safe Browsing status for Foxload.com is Unsafe."
- motohagiography 5y agoI use Bing for privacy because nobody would ever expect someone to use it for anything they cared about.
- Denvercoder9 5y agoTime for the EU to start another anti-trust suit.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- lbwtaylor 5y agoInteresting all this hand wringing - my mom's Apple computer is almost constant in it's interrupts to promote Apple's paid icloud service. Seems we're already way past an OS getting in your way to promote affiliate services. Bing seems more harmless to me.
- jhanschoo 5y agoIt worked in my case, at least for Edge. I didn't care enough for using Chrome over Edge to be pestered. I use Windows for gaming primarily. My productive stuff is on Linux. Still wouldn't be using Bing though.
- coolso 5y agoI would argue Microsoft is fighting fire with fire here. I don’t like it either… but I like Google and its tactics and policies even less. They’ve been on top for years with essentially nobody making any dents in their market dominance in either the browser or search engine sphere. I think getting the average mom and pop to switch away from Google, one of the farthest companies from being innocent, is ultimately a good thing.