5 ms·

None of that disproves the literal title? I don't want that in my car. I don't even drive drunk and I don't want my car thinking because it can't see the fuckin

None of that disproves the literal title? I don't want that in my car. I don't even drive drunk and I don't want my car thinking because it can't see the fucking lines on the road that I'm drunk. How would this work for being a designated driver? The drunkards in your car would setoff whatever sensors "monitoring" for alcohol. This is a stupid law that has no right to be included.

pkulak 5y ago
I'd say the incorrect words in the title are "mandatory" and "backdoor".
- jimmydorry 5y ago
  Once legislated, and two years after published, it will be mandatory for manufacturers to comply. This functionality is not requested and is working against the user (and it is pretty unlikely for such a feature to be done completely locally on the car, and even if it was, it will almost certain have Over-The-Air updates creating what is colloqially referred to as a backdoor. Which part of this do you disagree with?
  - pkulak 5y ago
    If this is a backdoor, then any functionality that can be updated by the manufacturer is a backdoor. Fine, but it's nice when words mean something. And it's not mandatory. It may become mandatory in several-to-many years. The law is about exploring the possibility, just like OP said. This article is Facebook garbage that somehow made it's way onto HN.
    - mike741 5y ago
      automatic updates without the user's consent are the very definition of a 'backdoor.' just because a new name for it "update" has been commercially normalized doesn't mean the original name has lost its meaning.
      - pkulak 5y ago
        Alright, then everything is a backdoor. Snaps are backdoors. Windows is a backdoor. MacOS is a backdoor. Watches are backdoors. Every cell phone is a backdoor. Thermostats and headphones and book readers are backdoors. Every car currently sold new is a backdoor. 90% of every device we interact with is a backdoor. So why put that in the title? It means nothing.
        kbelder 5y ago
        Very close. 90% of the computerized devices we interact with have backdoors. But then you jump to "backdoors must not be a problem" instead of "we have a severe problem all around us."
        mike741 5y ago
        Not everything is a backdoor, but Windows absolutely is and that's part of why people dislike Windows and voluntarily use the older versions. MacOS, and some cell phone OS's, at least let the user choose if/when to update in which case they're not backdoors.
    - jimmydorry 5y ago
      That's correct. Any functionality that can be updated and change how the system works at the whim of a third party (not the user) is essentially a backdoor. What would you propose as the definition of a backdoor that does not include the above?
helge9210 5y ago
> I don't want that in my car You are free not to buy. > I don't want my car thinking because it can't see the fucking lines on the road If you drive outside of "safe drive envelope" it does not matter if you're drunk or road conditions are dangerous. Safety systems should prevent accident in both cases.
- mdp2021 5y ago
  > You are free not to buy There do already exist pieces of legislation that cripple the acceptability not of one vehicle, but whole categories of vehicles (and practically potentially all of them). One such is the "E-call" in Europe.
- ehnto 5y ago
  The expanse of road environments where it's totally reasonable and safe to drive with which there are no lines is pretty large. Driving an unsealed country road could look to the cars metrics like I am driving drunk for example. The "you are free to not buy" argument is not valid if it's a regulation for all new cars. Eventually all viable road legal car stock will contain the regulated device.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    > could look to the cars metrics like I am driving drunk Same as sudden acceleration or breaking. Don't buy car like this.
    - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
      It's the same problem as the 737MAX MCAS, features shoehorned in, probably with bugs, poorly advertised, lack of training, misfeatures sold as default, leading to fatal pilot/driver confusion. My elderly parent has bought a car with some of these features second hand, it will be great fun figuring out what is working as designed when a heavy vehicle has lost control and is lurching towards us at high speed. https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/vulnerable-road-user-auto-emergency-braking https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/vulnerable-r... https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/driver-attention-detection https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/driver-atten... https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/lane-keep-assist https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/lane-keep-as...

pkulak 5y ago

I'd say the incorrect words in the title are "mandatory" and "backdoor".

jimmydorry 5y ago
Once legislated, and two years after published, it will be mandatory for manufacturers to comply. This functionality is not requested and is working against the user (and it is pretty unlikely for such a feature to be done completely locally on the car, and even if it was, it will almost certain have Over-The-Air updates creating what is colloqially referred to as a backdoor. Which part of this do you disagree with?
- pkulak 5y ago
  If this is a backdoor, then any functionality that can be updated by the manufacturer is a backdoor. Fine, but it's nice when words mean something. And it's not mandatory. It may become mandatory in several-to-many years. The law is about exploring the possibility, just like OP said. This article is Facebook garbage that somehow made it's way onto HN.
  - mike741 5y ago
    automatic updates without the user's consent are the very definition of a 'backdoor.' just because a new name for it "update" has been commercially normalized doesn't mean the original name has lost its meaning.
    - pkulak 5y ago
      Alright, then everything is a backdoor. Snaps are backdoors. Windows is a backdoor. MacOS is a backdoor. Watches are backdoors. Every cell phone is a backdoor. Thermostats and headphones and book readers are backdoors. Every car currently sold new is a backdoor. 90% of every device we interact with is a backdoor. So why put that in the title? It means nothing.
      - kbelder 5y ago
        Very close. 90% of the computerized devices we interact with have backdoors. But then you jump to "backdoors must not be a problem" instead of "we have a severe problem all around us."
      - mike741 5y ago
        Not everything is a backdoor, but Windows absolutely is and that's part of why people dislike Windows and voluntarily use the older versions. MacOS, and some cell phone OS's, at least let the user choose if/when to update in which case they're not backdoors.
  - jimmydorry 5y ago
    That's correct. Any functionality that can be updated and change how the system works at the whim of a third party (not the user) is essentially a backdoor. What would you propose as the definition of a backdoor that does not include the above?

helge9210 5y ago

> I don't want that in my car You are free not to buy. > I don't want my car thinking because it can't see the fucking lines on the road If you drive outside of "safe drive envelope" it does not matter if you're drunk or road conditions are dangerous. Safety systems should prevent accident in both cases.

mdp2021 5y ago
> You are free not to buy There do already exist pieces of legislation that cripple the acceptability not of one vehicle, but whole categories of vehicles (and practically potentially all of them). One such is the "E-call" in Europe.
ehnto 5y ago
The expanse of road environments where it's totally reasonable and safe to drive with which there are no lines is pretty large. Driving an unsealed country road could look to the cars metrics like I am driving drunk for example. The "you are free to not buy" argument is not valid if it's a regulation for all new cars. Eventually all viable road legal car stock will contain the regulated device.
- helge9210 5y ago
  > could look to the cars metrics like I am driving drunk Same as sudden acceleration or breaking. Don't buy car like this.
  - eliasmacpherson 5y ago
    It's the same problem as the 737MAX MCAS, features shoehorned in, probably with bugs, poorly advertised, lack of training, misfeatures sold as default, leading to fatal pilot/driver confusion. My elderly parent has bought a car with some of these features second hand, it will be great fun figuring out what is working as designed when a heavy vehicle has lost control and is lurching towards us at high speed. https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/vulnerable-road-user-auto-emergency-braking https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/vulnerable-r... https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/driver-attention-detection https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/driver-atten... https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/lane-keep-assist https://howsafeisyourcar.com.au/safety-features/lane-keep-as...