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I once had someone tell me that they could edit text faster with a mouse than I could from the keyboard with Emacs. I should send this article to them. Smh Ema

I once had someone tell me that they could edit text faster with a mouse than I could from the keyboard with Emacs. I should send this article to them. Smh Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest—an issue this article makes painfully clear to me. I guess it’s time to break out my config and tweak it… for the third time today…

thewakalix 5y ago
Umeshism: "If you're using all the features of your editor, you're not using a good enough editor."
- jayceekay 5y ago
  What if you're using neovim with all its possible plugins and moving like a god. It's given neovim is the best editor. What then?
  - thewakalix 5y ago
    "What if you simply arrive at the perfect time to every flight, neither too early nor too late?" Nobody can ever do that, so it's pointless to ask. (I suppose that if you built your own editor this might be true, but if you have your own plane then you're never early or late to your flight either.)
  - kamaal 5y ago
    Use what you can to get work done. Either way other people using a tool or not using a tool shouldn't effect you doing the same.
- andi999 5y ago
  Wait.. Emacs is an editor?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    Remember, UNIX was born as a typesetting system; apparently, many great OSs start with text editing;)
    - riskneutral 5y ago
      > UNIX was born as a typesetting system Do you have a link about this by any chance?
      - linschn 5y ago
        This is a simplification of Unix history, but is in accordance with the fact that the first eager knon programmer) users of Unix were the people typing patents applications at Bell Labs. See e.g. "unix, a history and a memoir" by Brian kernigan
        yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        I was thinking of it being sold to management as a typesetting system because Bell didn't do OS development. Unfortunately I don't have a reference immediately at hand.
        kqr 5y ago
        That's funny. Not at all related but the Sidewinder heat-seeking missile got its budget from the fuses department, because it was "an intelligent fuse". (That's where it got its budget, but formally it was sold to management as "a rocket with fire control inside" because China Lake was allowed to work on rockets and fire control – they were expressly forbidden to work on guided missiles.)
      - daptaq 5y ago
        Maybe https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/hist.html https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/hist.html might help.
  - 5y ago
gumby 5y ago
> Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest That’s true of your phone (or every computer). It’s one of the manifold weaknesses of (shudder) Word.
- jsilence 5y ago
  Isn't that slogan applied to the brain the catchphrase of Scientology?
  - gumby 5y ago
    Woah, really?? The only things I know about Scientology are SF writer on boat, snakes, something is called an e-meter, someth8ng about volcanos, and that they harassed my friend Keith for years.
daptaq 5y ago
> Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest I disagree, this is not a linear question. Emacs supports many different styles of working, and you aren't required to use anything to it's fullest. You might be using avy and other manipulation packages, or clicking around with the mouse (perhaps with your own commands bound to special kinds of mouse clicks) and it would be just as OK. You might always learn something tomorrow, but that shouldn't keep you from going on today.
throw10920 5y ago
> Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest I think that this is actually a strength. If you're using your editor to its fullest, then that means that there's no more room for you to improve. If your editor is simple, then its "fullest" isn't very good. If your editor is complex, then it took you a long time to get to its "fullest", and you hit diminishing returns a while ago. Emacs is great because the skill gap is ridiculously high, while the skill curve isn't very sharp (Emacs' modeless editing is straight-up easier to learn than vim's modal editing, whatever other people might say), so wherever you are, you can always learn a little bit more, and be a little bit more productive...or continue to work with what you have. That is - you can stop learning Emacs exactly when you want to - no sooner, no later. If you have a relatively simple editing task, you can just start it up, use the arrow keys to navigate, then save and quit (three keybindings total? find-file, save-buffer, save-buffers-kill-terminal). If you're anticipating starting a career in programming, you can learn and improve your skill with it (and your config) continuously for decades. I don't know of any other tool that's as good at this as Emacs is. On a tangent, I would propose to you that Emacs' greatest weakness is that it doesn't come configured out of the box. It's way easier to set up VSCode to do Python than it is Emacs, and that's going to be the final factor for a large fraction of programmers. If two editors are equally flexible (which isn't actually the case with Emacs vs. VSCode, but bear with me), the one with the better out-of-the-box experience will win. (and this is why I think that starter kits like Doom and Spacemacs are the only way for Emacs to survive)
- ashton314 5y ago
  >> Emacs' biggest drawback… I should have added a "/s" in there. :) I'm 100% with you on basically everything you've said. I totally agree that the biggest weakness is how bad the default Emacs experience is. I used vanilla Emacs in a terminal for years until I discovered I could install packages. What a world that opened up.

thewakalix 5y ago

Umeshism: "If you're using all the features of your editor, you're not using a good enough editor."

jayceekay 5y ago
What if you're using neovim with all its possible plugins and moving like a god. It's given neovim is the best editor. What then?
- thewakalix 5y ago
  "What if you simply arrive at the perfect time to every flight, neither too early nor too late?" Nobody can ever do that, so it's pointless to ask. (I suppose that if you built your own editor this might be true, but if you have your own plane then you're never early or late to your flight either.)
- kamaal 5y ago
  Use what you can to get work done. Either way other people using a tool or not using a tool shouldn't effect you doing the same.
andi999 5y ago
Wait.. Emacs is an editor?
- yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
  Remember, UNIX was born as a typesetting system; apparently, many great OSs start with text editing;)
  - riskneutral 5y ago
    > UNIX was born as a typesetting system Do you have a link about this by any chance?
    - linschn 5y ago
      This is a simplification of Unix history, but is in accordance with the fact that the first eager knon programmer) users of Unix were the people typing patents applications at Bell Labs. See e.g. "unix, a history and a memoir" by Brian kernigan
      - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        I was thinking of it being sold to management as a typesetting system because Bell didn't do OS development. Unfortunately I don't have a reference immediately at hand.
        kqr 5y ago
        That's funny. Not at all related but the Sidewinder heat-seeking missile got its budget from the fuses department, because it was "an intelligent fuse". (That's where it got its budget, but formally it was sold to management as "a rocket with fire control inside" because China Lake was allowed to work on rockets and fire control – they were expressly forbidden to work on guided missiles.)
    - daptaq 5y ago
      Maybe https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/hist.html https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/hist.html might help.
- 5y ago

gumby 5y ago

> Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest That’s true of your phone (or every computer). It’s one of the manifold weaknesses of (shudder) Word.

jsilence 5y ago
Isn't that slogan applied to the brain the catchphrase of Scientology?
- gumby 5y ago
  Woah, really?? The only things I know about Scientology are SF writer on boat, snakes, something is called an e-meter, someth8ng about volcanos, and that they harassed my friend Keith for years.

daptaq 5y ago

> Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest I disagree, this is not a linear question. Emacs supports many different styles of working, and you aren't required to use anything to it's fullest. You might be using avy and other manipulation packages, or clicking around with the mouse (perhaps with your own commands bound to special kinds of mouse clicks) and it would be just as OK. You might always learn something tomorrow, but that shouldn't keep you from going on today.

throw10920 5y ago

> Emacs’ biggest drawback is that you are never using it to the fullest I think that this is actually a strength. If you're using your editor to its fullest, then that means that there's no more room for you to improve. If your editor is simple, then its "fullest" isn't very good. If your editor is complex, then it took you a long time to get to its "fullest", and you hit diminishing returns a while ago. Emacs is great because the skill gap is ridiculously high, while the skill curve isn't very sharp (Emacs' modeless editing is straight-up easier to learn than vim's modal editing, whatever other people might say), so wherever you are, you can always learn a little bit more, and be a little bit more productive...or continue to work with what you have. That is - you can stop learning Emacs exactly when you want to - no sooner, no later. If you have a relatively simple editing task, you can just start it up, use the arrow keys to navigate, then save and quit (three keybindings total? find-file, save-buffer, save-buffers-kill-terminal). If you're anticipating starting a career in programming, you can learn and improve your skill with it (and your config) continuously for decades. I don't know of any other tool that's as good at this as Emacs is. On a tangent, I would propose to you that Emacs' greatest weakness is that it doesn't come configured out of the box. It's way easier to set up VSCode to do Python than it is Emacs, and that's going to be the final factor for a large fraction of programmers. If two editors are equally flexible (which isn't actually the case with Emacs vs. VSCode, but bear with me), the one with the better out-of-the-box experience will win. (and this is why I think that starter kits like Doom and Spacemacs are the only way for Emacs to survive)

ashton314 5y ago
>> Emacs' biggest drawback… I should have added a "/s" in there. :) I'm 100% with you on basically everything you've said. I totally agree that the biggest weakness is how bad the default Emacs experience is. I used vanilla Emacs in a terminal for years until I discovered I could install packages. What a world that opened up.