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> So back to copyright - you made it, you control it, the only question seems to be - for how long? Which leads us to the question of why it should indeed ever

by Kalium 5y ago

> So back to copyright - you made it, you control it, the only question seems to be - for how long? Which leads us to the question of why it should indeed ever expire? Patents have a public good when they expire - but what public good happens when copyrights expire seems less clear to me... A good question indeed! And, fortunately, one history is well-equipped to answer. You might find the history of the Statute of Anne interesting - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute_of_Anne In short, perpetual copyright means that publishing is essentially governed by private laws rather than public ones. Some, particularly Americans, may also find it relevant that non-expiring copyright is quite clearly forbidden by the constitutional clause that enables copyright to exist.

bruce511 5y ago
I'm not sure the linked article explains the public good in copyrights expiring - perhaps that the public had access to topical works improving their lives? Would that be true now? Even allowing for the fact that many copyrighted works are currently distributed freely? Maybe I could phrase the question this way - after how much time should, um, Microsoft be allowed to take a GPL licensed work, and use it in their own closed code? 10 years? 20? 50? Never?
- Kalium 5y ago
  Some would contend that preventing perpetual private censorship improves the lives of the public. Personally, I would be very impressed with any code still useful for incorporation into current things after 20 years. Certainly worth unshackling the original work from copyright.
  - bruce511 5y ago
    Prepare to be impressed! All the following are still actively using code that I'd more than 20 years old; Gnu user tools, as used in Gnu Linux. Linux kernel. Pretty much all databases. (sqlite for example is 21 years old). Much of Windows, and Ms office. Not to mention mountains of my own code, still in production. 20 years is nothing in coding terms. Most developrs I know are small or single, and have one or two products they've been working on for over 20 years.
    - toast0 5y ago
      Linux 2.4 was pretty good, but even most of my IoT junk runs 2.6 which isn't quite 20 years old. MySQL 4.0 was a lot better than 3.23 IIRC, and isn't quite 20 years old either. IMHO, it's not so bad for the old version to become unrestricted; more recent changes can still be restricted. And 20 years of updates are often compelling enough to submit to restrictions. What number seems right to you though? 95 years for work for hire or death of author + 70 (which is gonna be fun to track down for open source works with many author) seems rather long to me.
      - bruce511 5y ago
        the parent posted, >> I would be very impressed with any code And I would argue that _lots_ of the code in today's shipping products (which I listed, and others) use lots of code laid down more than 20 years ago. Sure there's lots more in Linux now, but lots of the code is also basically unchanged from 20 years ago. It's not like GREP gets a complete rewrite every 5 years... I'm not saying that I'd be up for using a Linux install from 20 years ago, but hey "any code" is a lot more than "complete install".

by Kalium 5y ago

bruce511 5y ago

I'm not sure the linked article explains the public good in copyrights expiring - perhaps that the public had access to topical works improving their lives? Would that be true now? Even allowing for the fact that many copyrighted works are currently distributed freely? Maybe I could phrase the question this way - after how much time should, um, Microsoft be allowed to take a GPL licensed work, and use it in their own closed code? 10 years? 20? 50? Never?

Kalium 5y ago
Some would contend that preventing perpetual private censorship improves the lives of the public. Personally, I would be very impressed with any code still useful for incorporation into current things after 20 years. Certainly worth unshackling the original work from copyright.
- bruce511 5y ago
  Prepare to be impressed! All the following are still actively using code that I'd more than 20 years old; Gnu user tools, as used in Gnu Linux. Linux kernel. Pretty much all databases. (sqlite for example is 21 years old). Much of Windows, and Ms office. Not to mention mountains of my own code, still in production. 20 years is nothing in coding terms. Most developrs I know are small or single, and have one or two products they've been working on for over 20 years.
  - toast0 5y ago
    Linux 2.4 was pretty good, but even most of my IoT junk runs 2.6 which isn't quite 20 years old. MySQL 4.0 was a lot better than 3.23 IIRC, and isn't quite 20 years old either. IMHO, it's not so bad for the old version to become unrestricted; more recent changes can still be restricted. And 20 years of updates are often compelling enough to submit to restrictions. What number seems right to you though? 95 years for work for hire or death of author + 70 (which is gonna be fun to track down for open source works with many author) seems rather long to me.
    - bruce511 5y ago
      the parent posted, >> I would be very impressed with any code And I would argue that _lots_ of the code in today's shipping products (which I listed, and others) use lots of code laid down more than 20 years ago. Sure there's lots more in Linux now, but lots of the code is also basically unchanged from 20 years ago. It's not like GREP gets a complete rewrite every 5 years... I'm not saying that I'd be up for using a Linux install from 20 years ago, but hey "any code" is a lot more than "complete install".