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> Whose culture is right? What is right in the eyes of the law? Perhaps I’m the only one who feels this way based on the number of pro-China posts, but a Chine

> Whose culture is right? What is right in the eyes of the law? Perhaps I’m the only one who feels this way based on the number of pro-China posts, but a Chinese hegemony would likely be a world of censorship and social credit. Compared to a flawed US democracy I’ll take the US democracy every time.

eunos 5y ago
A Chinese hegemony world will be void of virtue signalling, moralizing and ideologization (esp in tech). Something that much preferable.
- randomopining 5y ago
  Yeah only just the complete top down control over the people of the world. Us is imperfect and now we want an autocratic cabal to rule us with surveillance etc. What a joke.
- abduhl 5y ago
  Everything done in the Chinese society is virtue signaling, moralizing, and ideologization. If you don't align with the party you will be pruned or re-educated. In this respect, every single statement is designed to signal alignment with the government, advance the party's chosen morals, and advocating for the party's ideology. This is one of the few times on HN I've actually seen someone post something that is not only 100% incorrect but 100% opposite of the truth.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mrtnmcc 5y ago
China is culturally an ancient agrarian society focused more on defending farmland than conquering nations. This is not really comparable to the U.S. which is an ideology-based nation that inherited European imperialism traits. China is not interested in controlling or imposing beliefs in the same way it's rivals are so we shouldn't interpret their actions with the same lens.
- randomopining 5y ago
  Your response is some empty trite paragraph that doesn’t even make sense. “Don’t worry, it’s all fine”
- amprolh 5y ago
  > culturally an ancient society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution > China is not interested in controlling or imposing beliefs China is extremely interested in controlling and imposing the beliefs that the CCP is the best and should never be opposed and never makes mistakes, and demonstrates this daily within the great firewall and through threat of sanction against international media companies, nevermind the regular disappearance of high-profile individuals that cause "problems"...you know, to have a nice months-long chat with them that isn't about controlling or imposing beliefs. > China has not had the imperial history There are a number of formerly, currently, and soon-to-be-no-longer sovereign countries that don't want to be part of China, but China pretends they're not occupying/colonizing them by insisting they have always been part of China.
  - mrtnmcc 5y ago
    Control of actions and beliefs of citizens absolutely. But again that's to maintain internal stability. You'd need to give specific examples for the latter point.
    - sterlind 5y ago
      forcing US airlines to label Taiwan as China in their maps? annexing Tibet? all the power they have over Mongolia? Telco equipment sold way underprice to members of the Belt and Road initiative? the South China sea? the power they exert over Chinese students studying abroad? none of those are internal. maybe you're right, depending on how you define citizens - though taking a page from the British empire, maybe everyone's a citizen!
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      Taiwan
sudosysgen 5y ago
There will never be a Chinese hegemony. The actual decision is between US hegemony and a duopolar or multipolar world. The latter are pretty obviously preferable if you're not American or not very closely allied.
- jcoq 5y ago
  The scale of China's economy and population is so massive that they're clearly capable of hegemony. And as you say, it's good to be at the top. It would be irrational of China's leadership to seek anything else.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    No, they can never reach hegemony. The economy and population of the US would never have allowed it to reach hegemony if it wasn't for WW2 and it's extremely privileged position in North America. Geographically China will always have a lot of trouble projecting naval power internationally because of Japan, South Korea, Vietnam and the Malaccas. Thus, even if it had 2x the economy of the US, the US would still be able to have a larger general international military reach. To be the hegemon, you need to have a clear advantage over everyone else. China will never have that over the US+Europe. And by the time the US and Europe seriously decline, China will start declining too. China's leadership would be foolish to seek hegemony. It's just not feasible short of the US going into a civil war, and if you come at the king, you best not miss. Becoming a second king yourself instead of trying to take his place is much less risky and has most of the same rewards. Another way to look at it is that China will never have the same advantage over the US as the US gained over the UK before taking the lead. The US passed the British in economy and population much before it became the hegemon. You need more than an advantage in prosperity.
    - mtrovo 5y ago
      What does it mean to be an hegemony on your terms? Economically China being number one is just a matter of time, military I wouldn't count on them stopping short before US. Good luck trying to convince +1B people being fed government propaganda that they're not entitled to everything when they keep pushing 2 digits growth every year for 30 years. You're also missing the long game of China. Probably on our lifetimes the economic focus of the world is going to move to Asia and Africa based on opportunity of growth and demographics, looking from this perspective why would they care about conquering the west when they can just position themselves very well for the long term and have a nice view watching the decline of the west society?
kungito 5y ago
I'd take european democracy over US democracy any time
- duduer8fttg 5y ago
  So you'd prefer to be largely irrelevant but fashionable? When the EU has problems it complains to institutions founded by the Americans. There's a reason the US is pivoting its diplomatic focus to the UK, AU, Japan, etc. It's because the Europeans are happy to sit in their bubble pointing fingers while opining on why all their best talent leaves. Actually, that's a lie. Sometimes they also play with the definition of 'best' so that they can say lots of talent is still choosing to remain.
- thuccess129 5y ago
  There is less freedom and space in old europe. 1940s 50s 60s US climbed up the power curve and then Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan happened.
helloworld11 5y ago
This is a good point. People often lose some perspective in their analysis of the U.S/Western European-based cultural, political and economic dominance that exists in the world today. And while it certainly is loaded with numerous flaws and misdeeds, the Chinese system of government, social control and cultural management is very easily far worse in so many ways (none of this is to even mention the absolutely grotesque modern political history of China, one on which the modern CCP is founded and still adamantly refuses to reject in any formal way). Choosing between two less-than-perfect options such as these, I have a hard time imagining any moderately rational person with a modicum of interest in basic individual and human rights choosing the Chinese state as their preferred global leader. All countries pay lip service to notions of human rights and dignity, but at least the western democracies somewhat take these concepts seriously, even if they often do so in a patchwork way.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  This. I genuinely think that a China (CCP)-dominated world means the end of free thought, forget about free expression.

eunos 5y ago

A Chinese hegemony world will be void of virtue signalling, moralizing and ideologization (esp in tech). Something that much preferable.

randomopining 5y ago
Yeah only just the complete top down control over the people of the world. Us is imperfect and now we want an autocratic cabal to rule us with surveillance etc. What a joke.
abduhl 5y ago
Everything done in the Chinese society is virtue signaling, moralizing, and ideologization. If you don't align with the party you will be pruned or re-educated. In this respect, every single statement is designed to signal alignment with the government, advance the party's chosen morals, and advocating for the party's ideology. This is one of the few times on HN I've actually seen someone post something that is not only 100% incorrect but 100% opposite of the truth.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mrtnmcc 5y ago

China is culturally an ancient agrarian society focused more on defending farmland than conquering nations. This is not really comparable to the U.S. which is an ideology-based nation that inherited European imperialism traits. China is not interested in controlling or imposing beliefs in the same way it's rivals are so we shouldn't interpret their actions with the same lens.

randomopining 5y ago
Your response is some empty trite paragraph that doesn’t even make sense. “Don’t worry, it’s all fine”
amprolh 5y ago
> culturally an ancient society https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution > China is not interested in controlling or imposing beliefs China is extremely interested in controlling and imposing the beliefs that the CCP is the best and should never be opposed and never makes mistakes, and demonstrates this daily within the great firewall and through threat of sanction against international media companies, nevermind the regular disappearance of high-profile individuals that cause "problems"...you know, to have a nice months-long chat with them that isn't about controlling or imposing beliefs. > China has not had the imperial history There are a number of formerly, currently, and soon-to-be-no-longer sovereign countries that don't want to be part of China, but China pretends they're not occupying/colonizing them by insisting they have always been part of China.
- mrtnmcc 5y ago
  Control of actions and beliefs of citizens absolutely. But again that's to maintain internal stability. You'd need to give specific examples for the latter point.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    forcing US airlines to label Taiwan as China in their maps? annexing Tibet? all the power they have over Mongolia? Telco equipment sold way underprice to members of the Belt and Road initiative? the South China sea? the power they exert over Chinese students studying abroad? none of those are internal. maybe you're right, depending on how you define citizens - though taking a page from the British empire, maybe everyone's a citizen!
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    Taiwan

sudosysgen 5y ago

There will never be a Chinese hegemony. The actual decision is between US hegemony and a duopolar or multipolar world. The latter are pretty obviously preferable if you're not American or not very closely allied.

jcoq 5y ago
The scale of China's economy and population is so massive that they're clearly capable of hegemony. And as you say, it's good to be at the top. It would be irrational of China's leadership to seek anything else.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  No, they can never reach hegemony. The economy and population of the US would never have allowed it to reach hegemony if it wasn't for WW2 and it's extremely privileged position in North America. Geographically China will always have a lot of trouble projecting naval power internationally because of Japan, South Korea, Vietnam and the Malaccas. Thus, even if it had 2x the economy of the US, the US would still be able to have a larger general international military reach. To be the hegemon, you need to have a clear advantage over everyone else. China will never have that over the US+Europe. And by the time the US and Europe seriously decline, China will start declining too. China's leadership would be foolish to seek hegemony. It's just not feasible short of the US going into a civil war, and if you come at the king, you best not miss. Becoming a second king yourself instead of trying to take his place is much less risky and has most of the same rewards. Another way to look at it is that China will never have the same advantage over the US as the US gained over the UK before taking the lead. The US passed the British in economy and population much before it became the hegemon. You need more than an advantage in prosperity.
  - mtrovo 5y ago
    What does it mean to be an hegemony on your terms? Economically China being number one is just a matter of time, military I wouldn't count on them stopping short before US. Good luck trying to convince +1B people being fed government propaganda that they're not entitled to everything when they keep pushing 2 digits growth every year for 30 years. You're also missing the long game of China. Probably on our lifetimes the economic focus of the world is going to move to Asia and Africa based on opportunity of growth and demographics, looking from this perspective why would they care about conquering the west when they can just position themselves very well for the long term and have a nice view watching the decline of the west society?

kungito 5y ago

I'd take european democracy over US democracy any time

duduer8fttg 5y ago
So you'd prefer to be largely irrelevant but fashionable? When the EU has problems it complains to institutions founded by the Americans. There's a reason the US is pivoting its diplomatic focus to the UK, AU, Japan, etc. It's because the Europeans are happy to sit in their bubble pointing fingers while opining on why all their best talent leaves. Actually, that's a lie. Sometimes they also play with the definition of 'best' so that they can say lots of talent is still choosing to remain.
thuccess129 5y ago
There is less freedom and space in old europe. 1940s 50s 60s US climbed up the power curve and then Kennedy, Nixon, Reagan happened.

helloworld11 5y ago

This is a good point. People often lose some perspective in their analysis of the U.S/Western European-based cultural, political and economic dominance that exists in the world today. And while it certainly is loaded with numerous flaws and misdeeds, the Chinese system of government, social control and cultural management is very easily far worse in so many ways (none of this is to even mention the absolutely grotesque modern political history of China, one on which the modern CCP is founded and still adamantly refuses to reject in any formal way). Choosing between two less-than-perfect options such as these, I have a hard time imagining any moderately rational person with a modicum of interest in basic individual and human rights choosing the Chinese state as their preferred global leader. All countries pay lip service to notions of human rights and dignity, but at least the western democracies somewhat take these concepts seriously, even if they often do so in a patchwork way.

selfhoster11 5y ago
This. I genuinely think that a China (CCP)-dominated world means the end of free thought, forget about free expression.