> All new android phones are mainlined, it’s been years, even before either phone existed. Can you cite some sources for this? I believe, for example, that Qua

> All new android phones are mainlined, it’s been years, even before either phone existed. Can you cite some sources for this? I believe, for example, that Qualcomm Snapdragon SoCs have a degree of Linux support which literally allows you to boot up a mainline kernel on most of their boards. But to the best of my knowledge, only a handful of devices have anywhere close to full support for sensors, cell modem, wifi/bluetooth, buttons, suspend, etc. In general, obtaining support for these missing hardware features requires someone to carry out unpaid reverse engineering work. Even the PinePhone, which was specifically designed around the goal of being easy to mainline, required quite a bit of reverse engineering work from the community, and isn't yet fully mainlined. > Do you use them PPP daily? I don't; as far as I'm aware, the dev units haven't even shipped yet. Its device drivers are still a work in progress, and that will probably be the case for the next month or two. But I've pre-ordered one, and I plan to use it as my only phone starting early next year. (To be clear: I'm a very abnormal phone user. I never owned a cell phone until a few years ago; I now own an iPhone, which I literally use for nothing except texting and calling.) > Everyone is selling their L5 or getting a refund Much of the Librem 5 criticism is totally justified; they over-promised and under-delivered. They accepted payments on orders that they weren't able to ship, and they promised an unrealistically polished product which they weren't able to produce. On the other hand, Pine64 has been unambiguous in their messaging: the PinePhone is a phone for hackers, not for average consumers. Some people ignore the messaging, buy it with unrealistic expectations, and then complain about it on the internet; but that's life. If you need Android apps, if battery life is a high priority for you, or if you want iOS-tier polish, then Linux smartphones are the wrong choice for you. It's the right choice if you value software freedom, enjoy hacking, don't mind getting your hands dirty, and don't need Android apps or multi-day battery life.