3 ms·

Why? I mean... we let people smoke and die due to that... why not due to covid too? The vaccines are too weak to actually achieve herd immunity, so pretty muc

Why? I mean... we let people smoke and die due to that... why not due to covid too? The vaccines are too weak to actually achieve herd immunity, so pretty much everyone will get in contact with covid, sooner or later,... some will beat it by themselves and some will, sadly, die. If people want to take the risk of covid, why force them? I got vaccinated and I don't care if some people don't want to do it.

Xylakant 5y ago
We no longer let people smoke in places where others are affected. If COVID would only affect the unvaccinated person, I’d agree with you. But vaccination reduces the risk of catching the disease and thus the risk of passing it on to others. If unvaccinated people would all stay home and enter voluntary lockdown, this wouldn’t be a discussion. But they do not. They get infected. They pass it on. In Berlin, there’s a recommendation to not engage in dangerous activities, because there might not be an ICU bed if you have an accident. Planned surgery for cancer patients is postponed, because there’s no bed for aftercare. They’re all taken by mostly unvaccinated COVID patients. If the unvaccinated would all voluntarily stay home and suffer there, I’d agree with you. But they don’t. They’re taking the bed that I’ll need if I get run over by a car in the street.
- codr7 5y ago
  Vaccinated people get infected and pass it on too, what's your point here?
  - Xylakant 5y ago
    But they are far less likely to get infected in the first place and even less likely to block an ICU bed. If you look at the statistics for Germany, the regions with the lowest vaccination rates have the highest COVID rates and are transferring patient out because all ICU beds are occupied.
    - codr7 5y ago
      I am well aware that's the official story. But I prefer reality, and I haven's seen any definitive proof that's the case yet, quite the contrary. It looks to me like the more we vaccinate, the sicker we get.
semigroupoid 5y ago
Because the ICUs are at maximum capacity?!?
- codr7 5y ago
  With unvaccinated people? Sources?
  - MauranKilom 5y ago
    Many hospitals in Germany are out of ICU beds: https://www.thelocal.de/20211116/covid-surge-the-german-districts-running-out-of-intensive-care-beds/ https://www.thelocal.de/20211116/covid-surge-the-german-dist... I have been unable to find an official/authoritative source on vaccination rates among ICU patients with cursory search. Help for clearing this aspect up is appreciated!

Xylakant 5y ago

We no longer let people smoke in places where others are affected. If COVID would only affect the unvaccinated person, I’d agree with you. But vaccination reduces the risk of catching the disease and thus the risk of passing it on to others. If unvaccinated people would all stay home and enter voluntary lockdown, this wouldn’t be a discussion. But they do not. They get infected. They pass it on. In Berlin, there’s a recommendation to not engage in dangerous activities, because there might not be an ICU bed if you have an accident. Planned surgery for cancer patients is postponed, because there’s no bed for aftercare. They’re all taken by mostly unvaccinated COVID patients. If the unvaccinated would all voluntarily stay home and suffer there, I’d agree with you. But they don’t. They’re taking the bed that I’ll need if I get run over by a car in the street.

codr7 5y ago
Vaccinated people get infected and pass it on too, what's your point here?
- Xylakant 5y ago
  But they are far less likely to get infected in the first place and even less likely to block an ICU bed. If you look at the statistics for Germany, the regions with the lowest vaccination rates have the highest COVID rates and are transferring patient out because all ICU beds are occupied.
  - codr7 5y ago
    I am well aware that's the official story. But I prefer reality, and I haven's seen any definitive proof that's the case yet, quite the contrary. It looks to me like the more we vaccinate, the sicker we get.

semigroupoid 5y ago

Because the ICUs are at maximum capacity?!?

codr7 5y ago
With unvaccinated people? Sources?
- MauranKilom 5y ago
  Many hospitals in Germany are out of ICU beds: https://www.thelocal.de/20211116/covid-surge-the-german-districts-running-out-of-intensive-care-beds/ https://www.thelocal.de/20211116/covid-surge-the-german-dist... I have been unable to find an official/authoritative source on vaccination rates among ICU patients with cursory search. Help for clearing this aspect up is appreciated!