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As I understand the United States and others just ship all their plastic to Asia where it is dumped in the ocean so they can claim they are green for whatever c

As I understand the United States and others just ship all their plastic to Asia where it is dumped in the ocean so they can claim they are green for whatever consumer advocate.

maxerickson 5y ago
My county landfill gets paid for the plastic that trucks come and take away (or they put it in the landfill). Who is supposedly paying to come pick it up, put it on a boat, and so on, instead of just putting it into the landfill?
- ploxiln 5y ago
  You! via taxes to local, state, and federal governments, who pay for "recycling" (illusion) programs that citizens demand.
  - maxerickson 5y ago
    No, I don't want that glib answer, I want an explanation about the flow of funds. Like is there a federal program handing out money to the companies buying the recycling? Was there a secret government program sending money to Chinese recyclers? And for instance, metal, cardboard and paper recycling actually work well. How come the may-may about plastic recycling being fake rolled those in?
    - ploxiln 5y ago
      > Those city departments responsible for trash pickup now incur significant costs, over and above what they would have to pay in the absence of recycling. These costs include the personnel and equipment for separate additional refuse collection (or payment to a contractor to provide the service), as well as the cost of paying firms to accept recyclables, now that they no longer can be profitably resold. > Some recyclables — notably, aluminum cans — continue to have a relatively high market value. But they are mixed with other materials that have little value and therefore require expensive sorting. https://www.manhattan-institute.org/recycling-cost-benefit-analysis https://www.manhattan-institute.org/recycling-cost-benefit-a... So, cities pay for recycling to be collected, and then after that pay some company to take it off their hands. They used to not pay much for the latter, sometimes even zero, if enough aluminum could be recovered. But now, they pay for it to be taken too. These companies that take the recycling, try to make some profit from the money they are paid, and the materials. They also have to look like they are actually recycling. So they used to just spend some of the money (which they are paid by the city, and some from the pure aluminum they can separate) to ship the worthless stuff to China for "recycling" ... and what's left over is profit. EDIT: better specific data: > Boston then pays a private firm, Casella Waste Systems, to sort and sell the materials when there is a buyer, or otherwise dispose of them. > The price that the city must pay Casella to accept these recyclables has been rising, partly because some 25% of the materials are contaminated. A five-year “residential recycling processing contract” that expired in 2019 called on the city to pay $70 per ton for that service;[18] a new contract signed in 2019 increased that fee to a minimum of $125 per ton and a maximum of $160 per ton—depending on market conditions.
      - maxerickson 5y ago
        What does Boston pay per ton to dispose of garbage?
        ploxiln 5y ago
        > Notably, Boston pays a significantly lower tipping fee to dump the unsorted general refuse that it collects: $80 per ton.
nitwit005 5y ago
Most of the world signed a treaty in 2019 to stop the flow of trash from wealthy countries (Basel Convention). But worth noting its firms in the poor countries buying the stuff as scrap to recycle, and tossing or burning the stuff they couldn't recycle.
JamesBarney 5y ago
It's specifically recycled material. Stuff that's thrown away makes it into well managed U.S. landfills with no issues.
howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
Nope. Most asian nations (China most notably) stopped or greatly reduces such imports about 5 years ago. And, even when these imports were happening, its was for reprocessing, not disposal purposes. Yes, if recycled plastics prices precipitously fell then some importers may have dumped the imports, but that was not generally the case. You may also be confusing plastic waste with electronic scrap which contains plastic waste. Here again, those imports have largely stopped.
- soperj 5y ago
  They reduced the imports of stuff that was just garbage.
  - howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
    Nope. They eliminated valuable scrap imports as well. In China, in particular, this was as much to subsidize internal secondary processing capabilities. Sorry, you're out of our depth on this one.
    - soperj 5y ago
      >Sorry, you're out of our depth on this one. If you feel that's the case, provide evidence instead of attacking the poster.
- jeromegv 5y ago
  It stopped in China, not in the rest of Asia.
  - howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
    Nope (again). Malaysia, Vietnam & others have taken similar positions.
- beerandt 5y ago
  They didn't really stop it, but they raised the quality standards to be so high that no post-consumer plastics qualify. Something like less than 5% contamination. They do still accept "clean" plastic, like from industrial manufacturing. Think custom molded part containers or similar. And before you start cleaning your recycling before binning it, that automatically uses enough water and energy to defeat the point of recycling.
mkhpalm 5y ago
Why would you say something like that? It makes me uncomfortable even pointing stuff like this out but sometimes people just need to see it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMuh-5V9fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMuh-5V9fk

As I understand the United States and others just ship all their plastic to Asia where it is dumped in the ocean so they can claim they are green for whatever consumer advocate.

maxerickson 5y ago

My county landfill gets paid for the plastic that trucks come and take away (or they put it in the landfill). Who is supposedly paying to come pick it up, put it on a boat, and so on, instead of just putting it into the landfill?

ploxiln 5y ago
You! via taxes to local, state, and federal governments, who pay for "recycling" (illusion) programs that citizens demand.
- maxerickson 5y ago
  No, I don't want that glib answer, I want an explanation about the flow of funds. Like is there a federal program handing out money to the companies buying the recycling? Was there a secret government program sending money to Chinese recyclers? And for instance, metal, cardboard and paper recycling actually work well. How come the may-may about plastic recycling being fake rolled those in?
  - ploxiln 5y ago
    > Those city departments responsible for trash pickup now incur significant costs, over and above what they would have to pay in the absence of recycling. These costs include the personnel and equipment for separate additional refuse collection (or payment to a contractor to provide the service), as well as the cost of paying firms to accept recyclables, now that they no longer can be profitably resold. > Some recyclables — notably, aluminum cans — continue to have a relatively high market value. But they are mixed with other materials that have little value and therefore require expensive sorting. https://www.manhattan-institute.org/recycling-cost-benefit-analysis https://www.manhattan-institute.org/recycling-cost-benefit-a... So, cities pay for recycling to be collected, and then after that pay some company to take it off their hands. They used to not pay much for the latter, sometimes even zero, if enough aluminum could be recovered. But now, they pay for it to be taken too. These companies that take the recycling, try to make some profit from the money they are paid, and the materials. They also have to look like they are actually recycling. So they used to just spend some of the money (which they are paid by the city, and some from the pure aluminum they can separate) to ship the worthless stuff to China for "recycling" ... and what's left over is profit. EDIT: better specific data: > Boston then pays a private firm, Casella Waste Systems, to sort and sell the materials when there is a buyer, or otherwise dispose of them. > The price that the city must pay Casella to accept these recyclables has been rising, partly because some 25% of the materials are contaminated. A five-year “residential recycling processing contract” that expired in 2019 called on the city to pay $70 per ton for that service;[18] a new contract signed in 2019 increased that fee to a minimum of $125 per ton and a maximum of $160 per ton—depending on market conditions.
    - maxerickson 5y ago
      What does Boston pay per ton to dispose of garbage?
      - ploxiln 5y ago
        > Notably, Boston pays a significantly lower tipping fee to dump the unsorted general refuse that it collects: $80 per ton.

nitwit005 5y ago

Most of the world signed a treaty in 2019 to stop the flow of trash from wealthy countries (Basel Convention). But worth noting its firms in the poor countries buying the stuff as scrap to recycle, and tossing or burning the stuff they couldn't recycle.

JamesBarney 5y ago

It's specifically recycled material. Stuff that's thrown away makes it into well managed U.S. landfills with no issues.

howmayiannoyyou 5y ago

Nope. Most asian nations (China most notably) stopped or greatly reduces such imports about 5 years ago. And, even when these imports were happening, its was for reprocessing, not disposal purposes. Yes, if recycled plastics prices precipitously fell then some importers may have dumped the imports, but that was not generally the case. You may also be confusing plastic waste with electronic scrap which contains plastic waste. Here again, those imports have largely stopped.

soperj 5y ago
They reduced the imports of stuff that was just garbage.
- howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
  Nope. They eliminated valuable scrap imports as well. In China, in particular, this was as much to subsidize internal secondary processing capabilities. Sorry, you're out of our depth on this one.
  - soperj 5y ago
    >Sorry, you're out of our depth on this one. If you feel that's the case, provide evidence instead of attacking the poster.
jeromegv 5y ago
It stopped in China, not in the rest of Asia.
- howmayiannoyyou 5y ago
  Nope (again). Malaysia, Vietnam & others have taken similar positions.
beerandt 5y ago
They didn't really stop it, but they raised the quality standards to be so high that no post-consumer plastics qualify. Something like less than 5% contamination. They do still accept "clean" plastic, like from industrial manufacturing. Think custom molded part containers or similar. And before you start cleaning your recycling before binning it, that automatically uses enough water and energy to defeat the point of recycling.

mkhpalm 5y ago

Why would you say something like that? It makes me uncomfortable even pointing stuff like this out but sometimes people just need to see it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMuh-5V9fk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYMuh-5V9fk