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Passing a driver's test doesn't fully prevent all car accidents, and yet we still require potential drivers to pass a test. Just because something isn't perfec

Passing a driver's test doesn't fully prevent all car accidents, and yet we still require potential drivers to pass a test. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

hunterb123 5y ago
Forcing a standardized test is not the same as forcing an injection that people still have to sign a legal waiver for. If you're talking about taking away freedoms and forcing injections, it better solve something, not "meh it probably helps". -- edit -- To below, the 14th amendment. Why do you think they keep losing court cases with the vaccine mandates? My body my choice. Ring a bell? If it's a good enough argument to kill life inside you, it's a good enough argument against forced injections. Don't be a useful idiot, don't advocate for your own oppression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
- halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
  There is no “freedom from being injected” or “freedom from spreading a virus” or “freedom from denying a vaccine, getting sick and straining the healthcare system”. People just love making up “freedoms”.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    > There is no “freedom from being injected” or “freedom from spreading a virus” or “freedom from denying a vaccine, getting sick and straining the healthcare system”. Actually, any authority not explicitly given to the government in the US Constitution is implicitly a right. See the Tenth Amendment. Also, wouldn't those fall under the right of privacy used to justify abortions or the right to due process protected by the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments?
- yibg 5y ago
  Would you be ok with not allowing unvaccinated people into certain places? e.g. a vaccine "license".
  - aakresearch 5y ago
    May I voice an opinion? Possibly yes, in principle. If it is non-punitive, like most of the licenses in existence. For this a few points will need to be satisfied though, which, in my opinion are not, at present. - It needs to be shown that significant difference exists in the degree of risk/harm reduction between "licensed" and "unlicensed". That reduction must be measured and quantified or qualified beyond reasonable doubt. The threshold of significance also must be socially agreed upon. - Likewise, the very risk/harm to be reduced needs to be shown as being worth an essentially society-divisive measure. Again, the agreement needs to be reached on where exactly the the tolerance threshold is. Such that it is clear why the same mechanism is/was not applied to other things. Like, why we don't enforce it for seasonal flu, why we don't have blanket 10km/hr speed limit, and why when throwing a BBQ for friends one must not apply for permission and provide proof of recent "food handling safety" certificate. - At the same time the requirement must be universal, no exception on any grounds, medical or not. Just like blind or mentally deficient person is unable to get PPL or DL, under any circumstances, even though the disability is not due to their choice. - The latter must be recognized and "unlicensed" people must not be shamed or vilified. Conversely, creation of the alternative infrastructure must be encouraged, in order to bring these people back into society. Just like we do for people with other disabilities. Otherwise it is just petty punitive crap. Like in Victoria, where "unlicensed" aren't allowed into KMart, but can run wild in Coles across the floor. Or not allowed into restaurant but happy to mingle in the food court. And honestly, so many measures for the last two years were just hostile and punitive and useless otherwise, it is not surprising that they tend to be rejected as a package, even when you can, arguably, sift one or two reasonable things from it.
  - TheRealNGenius 5y ago
    I would be okay with it if the unvaccinated are still allowed to go places given they can provide a negative test. But ideally, they shouldn't be barred. I like to think of the covid vaccine as a potentially forced evolution of humanity, of which a certain subset of its constituents favor reducing the rights of those whom refuse it - a group that they were apart of not so long before.
Fricken 5y ago
Across Canada, thousands of people have died as a consequence their elective surgeries have been delayed to make room for Covid ICU admissions. In Alberta ICU admissions are 60x higher for the unvaccinated than the vaccinated in their 50s. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-severe-outcomes-covid-vaccination-1.6178449 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-severe-outcom...
- hunterb123 5y ago
  Nothing to do with covid and everything to do with socialized medicine. Canada has always had very long surgery wait times: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-weeks-in-2016-report-1.3171718 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-... edit: not irrelevant, it's yet another problem being blamed on covid when it's really Canada's mismanagement of their healthcare system.
  - Fricken 5y ago
    That's irrelevant. I'm talking about what's changed since the pandemic began.

Passing a driver's test doesn't fully prevent all car accidents, and yet we still require potential drivers to pass a test. Just because something isn't perfect doesn't mean it isn't worth doing.

hunterb123 5y ago

Forcing a standardized test is not the same as forcing an injection that people still have to sign a legal waiver for. If you're talking about taking away freedoms and forcing injections, it better solve something, not "meh it probably helps". -- edit -- To below, the 14th amendment. Why do you think they keep losing court cases with the vaccine mandates? My body my choice. Ring a bell? If it's a good enough argument to kill life inside you, it's a good enough argument against forced injections. Don't be a useful idiot, don't advocate for your own oppression: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

halfmatthalfcat 5y ago
There is no “freedom from being injected” or “freedom from spreading a virus” or “freedom from denying a vaccine, getting sick and straining the healthcare system”. People just love making up “freedoms”.
- ghoward 5y ago
  > There is no “freedom from being injected” or “freedom from spreading a virus” or “freedom from denying a vaccine, getting sick and straining the healthcare system”. Actually, any authority not explicitly given to the government in the US Constitution is implicitly a right. See the Tenth Amendment. Also, wouldn't those fall under the right of privacy used to justify abortions or the right to due process protected by the Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments?
yibg 5y ago
Would you be ok with not allowing unvaccinated people into certain places? e.g. a vaccine "license".
- aakresearch 5y ago
  May I voice an opinion? Possibly yes, in principle. If it is non-punitive, like most of the licenses in existence. For this a few points will need to be satisfied though, which, in my opinion are not, at present. - It needs to be shown that significant difference exists in the degree of risk/harm reduction between "licensed" and "unlicensed". That reduction must be measured and quantified or qualified beyond reasonable doubt. The threshold of significance also must be socially agreed upon. - Likewise, the very risk/harm to be reduced needs to be shown as being worth an essentially society-divisive measure. Again, the agreement needs to be reached on where exactly the the tolerance threshold is. Such that it is clear why the same mechanism is/was not applied to other things. Like, why we don't enforce it for seasonal flu, why we don't have blanket 10km/hr speed limit, and why when throwing a BBQ for friends one must not apply for permission and provide proof of recent "food handling safety" certificate. - At the same time the requirement must be universal, no exception on any grounds, medical or not. Just like blind or mentally deficient person is unable to get PPL or DL, under any circumstances, even though the disability is not due to their choice. - The latter must be recognized and "unlicensed" people must not be shamed or vilified. Conversely, creation of the alternative infrastructure must be encouraged, in order to bring these people back into society. Just like we do for people with other disabilities. Otherwise it is just petty punitive crap. Like in Victoria, where "unlicensed" aren't allowed into KMart, but can run wild in Coles across the floor. Or not allowed into restaurant but happy to mingle in the food court. And honestly, so many measures for the last two years were just hostile and punitive and useless otherwise, it is not surprising that they tend to be rejected as a package, even when you can, arguably, sift one or two reasonable things from it.
- TheRealNGenius 5y ago
  I would be okay with it if the unvaccinated are still allowed to go places given they can provide a negative test. But ideally, they shouldn't be barred. I like to think of the covid vaccine as a potentially forced evolution of humanity, of which a certain subset of its constituents favor reducing the rights of those whom refuse it - a group that they were apart of not so long before.

Fricken 5y ago

Across Canada, thousands of people have died as a consequence their elective surgeries have been delayed to make room for Covid ICU admissions. In Alberta ICU admissions are 60x higher for the unvaccinated than the vaccinated in their 50s. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-severe-outcomes-covid-vaccination-1.6178449 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-severe-outcom...

hunterb123 5y ago
Nothing to do with covid and everything to do with socialized medicine. Canada has always had very long surgery wait times: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-weeks-in-2016-report-1.3171718 https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/health-care-wait-times-hit-20-... edit: not irrelevant, it's yet another problem being blamed on covid when it's really Canada's mismanagement of their healthcare system.
- Fricken 5y ago
  That's irrelevant. I'm talking about what's changed since the pandemic began.