5 ms·

It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.

by jjoonathan 5y ago

bavent 5y ago
And really hard to listen to people compare vaccine mandates to the holocaust.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mythrwy 5y ago
It's hard to sympathize with people who still believe this series of vaccines prevents others from spreading infections and thus all measures to require compliance are fine.
- krastanov 5y ago
  See sibling comments for the citations. Vaccines significantly lower the chance for transmission.
  - mythrwy 5y ago
    Maybe. One non peer reviewed study. Reduces transmission some. For a brief period. How does this translate into force everyone to take an experimental shot (with some number of side effects and deaths) every X months? We see, right now, outside of "studies", I've seen in my own family and I'm not the only one, these vaccines do not stop transmission. They do not stop infection. Maybe they "reduce". They do not stop. So parent posters histrionics about "right to infect me with disease" is just.. histrionics. The vaccinated can also infect him with a disease.
jimmygrapes 5y ago
That's what they said back then, too.
blub 5y ago
They’re really not, they don’t know you nor do they care about you. That was just a reframing you did to make them seem malicious, when they’re mostly indifferent, afraid or misinformed.
CountDrewku 5y ago
How are they infecting you if you're vaccinated? It's really hard to sympathize with people that think it's their right to force something on other people's bodies. This isn't polio. I'm vaccinated. I stay healthy. I have no fear of un-vaccinated people and neither should you. If you are fearful you've fallen victim to your own anti-science mental health anxiety with a load of media brainwashing on top.
mandmandam 5y ago
People saying this are being flagged, but the fact remains that COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. The CDC themselves state that viral load is similar in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. And yes, people have the right to refuse medical treament; that's a human right. It's there for very good reasons, and there is broad agreement among civil liberties experts on that point.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > The CDC themselves state that viral load is similar in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. You missed a pretty important bit of that statement. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var... > However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people. As for transmission, the CDC actually says the vaccines do help here. (Not stop, but reduce.) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythings... > And yes, people have the right to refuse medical treament; that's a human right. Most states in the US require a variety of vaccinations to enter public school. New York requires it even for private/religious schooling (https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/school_vaccines/ https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...). Measles, DTaP, polio, etc. have widespread existing requirements predating COVID.
  - mandmandam 5y ago
    I didn't miss any part of that statement. Everything I stated is factual, and I insinuated nothing else. The person I was replying to clearly inferred that vaccinated individuals don't infect others, and that's dangerously wrong. As for schools requiring vaccines, there is a lot to take issue with there - mRNA vaccines are different, with no long term data, for a different virus. The mandated vaccines don't require biannual top ups, and are for viruses that actually threaten children themselves - school agechildren have a near-zero mortality risk form COVID. But the fact remains, regardless of all the weeds we could get into there, and NY state law notwithstanding, **human beings have a fundamental right to not be forced into medical treatment**. As I said, civil liberties groups have written on this at length, and been largely ignored. I think ignoring them requires a level of stupidity bordering on evil.
commandlinefan 5y ago
If you're vaccinated, how can anybody infect you with it?
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  How did you and a whole bunch of other people apparently hear "95% efficacy against severe disease" and somehow decide that meant "100% efficacy against infection"?
  - UnFleshedOne 5y ago
    They did loudly proclaim 100% efficacy against infection when vaccines were firstly introduced. Like many other such proclamations that turned out to be wildly incorrect. No surprise people learned to discredit all such claims and their sources.
    - detaro 5y ago
      Then you surely can link such an announcement?
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      No, they really didn't. November, 2020: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... > Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group November, 2020: https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/modernas-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-meets-its-primary-efficacy https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... > This first interim analysis was based on 95 cases, of which 90 cases of COVID-19 were observed in the placebo group versus 5 cases observed in the mRNA-1273 group, resulting in a point estimate of vaccine efficacy of 94.5% (p <0.0001). April, 2021: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... > Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]). They've been clear since the very beginning that vaccinated people could still get infected, and that efficacy was regarding severe disease.

It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.

bavent 5y ago

And really hard to listen to people compare vaccine mandates to the holocaust.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mythrwy 5y ago

It's hard to sympathize with people who still believe this series of vaccines prevents others from spreading infections and thus all measures to require compliance are fine.

krastanov 5y ago
See sibling comments for the citations. Vaccines significantly lower the chance for transmission.
- mythrwy 5y ago
  Maybe. One non peer reviewed study. Reduces transmission some. For a brief period. How does this translate into force everyone to take an experimental shot (with some number of side effects and deaths) every X months? We see, right now, outside of "studies", I've seen in my own family and I'm not the only one, these vaccines do not stop transmission. They do not stop infection. Maybe they "reduce". They do not stop. So parent posters histrionics about "right to infect me with disease" is just.. histrionics. The vaccinated can also infect him with a disease.

jimmygrapes 5y ago

That's what they said back then, too.

blub 5y ago

They’re really not, they don’t know you nor do they care about you. That was just a reframing you did to make them seem malicious, when they’re mostly indifferent, afraid or misinformed.

CountDrewku 5y ago

How are they infecting you if you're vaccinated? It's really hard to sympathize with people that think it's their right to force something on other people's bodies. This isn't polio. I'm vaccinated. I stay healthy. I have no fear of un-vaccinated people and neither should you. If you are fearful you've fallen victim to your own anti-science mental health anxiety with a load of media brainwashing on top.

mandmandam 5y ago

People saying this are being flagged, but the fact remains that COVID vaccines don't stop transmission. The CDC themselves state that viral load is similar in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. And yes, people have the right to refuse medical treament; that's a human right. It's there for very good reasons, and there is broad agreement among civil liberties experts on that point.

ceejayoz 5y ago
> The CDC themselves state that viral load is similar in fully vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. You missed a pretty important bit of that statement. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-variant.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var... > However, like prior variants, the amount of viral genetic material may go down faster in fully vaccinated people when compared to unvaccinated people. This means fully vaccinated people will likely spread the virus for less time than unvaccinated people. As for transmission, the CDC actually says the vaccines do help here. (Not stop, but reduce.) https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythingstoknow.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/keythings... > And yes, people have the right to refuse medical treament; that's a human right. Most states in the US require a variety of vaccinations to enter public school. New York requires it even for private/religious schooling (https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/school_vaccines/ https://www.health.ny.gov/prevention/immunization/schools/sc...). Measles, DTaP, polio, etc. have widespread existing requirements predating COVID.
- mandmandam 5y ago
  I didn't miss any part of that statement. Everything I stated is factual, and I insinuated nothing else. The person I was replying to clearly inferred that vaccinated individuals don't infect others, and that's dangerously wrong. As for schools requiring vaccines, there is a lot to take issue with there - mRNA vaccines are different, with no long term data, for a different virus. The mandated vaccines don't require biannual top ups, and are for viruses that actually threaten children themselves - school agechildren have a near-zero mortality risk form COVID. But the fact remains, regardless of all the weeds we could get into there, and NY state law notwithstanding, **human beings have a fundamental right to not be forced into medical treatment**. As I said, civil liberties groups have written on this at length, and been largely ignored. I think ignoring them requires a level of stupidity bordering on evil.

commandlinefan 5y ago

If you're vaccinated, how can anybody infect you with it?

ceejayoz 5y ago
How did you and a whole bunch of other people apparently hear "95% efficacy against severe disease" and somehow decide that meant "100% efficacy against infection"?
- UnFleshedOne 5y ago
  They did loudly proclaim 100% efficacy against infection when vaccines were firstly introduced. Like many other such proclamations that turned out to be wildly incorrect. No surprise people learned to discredit all such claims and their sources.
  - detaro 5y ago
    Then you surely can link such an announcement?
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    No, they really didn't. November, 2020: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-conclude-phase-3-study-covid-19-vaccine https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... > Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group November, 2020: https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/modernas-covid-19-vaccine-candidate-meets-its-primary-efficacy https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... > This first interim analysis was based on 95 cases, of which 90 cases of COVID-19 were observed in the placebo group versus 5 cases observed in the mRNA-1273 group, resulting in a point estimate of vaccine efficacy of 94.5% (p <0.0001). April, 2021: https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-confirm-high-efficacy-and-no-serious https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta... > Thirty-two cases of severe disease, as defined by the CDC, were observed in the placebo group versus none in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating that the vaccine was 100% efficacious in this analysis against severe disease by the CDC definition (95% CI, [88.0,100.0]). Twenty-one severe cases, as defined by the FDA, were observed in the placebo group versus one case in the BNT162b2 vaccinated group, indicating 95.3% efficacy by the FDA definition (95% CI, [71.0, 99.9]). They've been clear since the very beginning that vaccinated people could still get infected, and that efficacy was regarding severe disease.