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71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is

71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave, which is why we now need to take more drastic measures again when the entirely predictable course events would take this winter became apparent even to our politicians. But at a point were planned operations for other diseases like cancer get cancelled all over the place, when people requiring acute care get long delays until they find a free intensive care bed somewhere, you can't ignore this any longer. Requiring vaccinations for non-essential activities with many people is something we should have done much earlier, it's long overdue. It's the least restrictive measure that has a good chance of doing both, reducing the spread and encouraging more people to get vaccinated. The failure to organize the vaccine boosters is another big issue. It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective, the delays here cause increased load in intensive care and were to some degree avoidable.

caeril 5y ago
I bet on the order of 71% of Germans supported mandatory discrimination against undesirables in 1940 too, but here we are yet again, claiming that what a majority of the population supports is indicative of moral correctness. If these measures don't work, like literally every authoritarian measure undertaken by governments so far, maybe Germany can put all the un-vaccinated into camps, too. We need to keep the unpure away from us. Sure, the R0 value of the contagion amongst a 100% vaccinated population is still >1.0, and there are early indications that Omicron has a sufficiently mutated spike protein as to render the vaccine immune response ineffective, but why let epidemiological facts stand in the way of exercising power over one's inferiors?
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.
  - bavent 5y ago
    And really hard to listen to people compare vaccine mandates to the holocaust.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - mythrwy 5y ago
    It's hard to sympathize with people who still believe this series of vaccines prevents others from spreading infections and thus all measures to require compliance are fine.
    - krastanov 5y ago
      See sibling comments for the citations. Vaccines significantly lower the chance for transmission.
      - mythrwy 5y ago
        Maybe. One non peer reviewed study. Reduces transmission some. For a brief period. How does this translate into force everyone to take an experimental shot (with some number of side effects and deaths) every X months? We see, right now, outside of "studies", I've seen in my own family and I'm not the only one, these vaccines do not stop transmission. They do not stop infection. Maybe they "reduce". They do not stop. So parent posters histrionics about "right to infect me with disease" is just.. histrionics. The vaccinated can also infect him with a disease.
  - jimmygrapes 5y ago
    That's what they said back then, too.
  - blub 5y ago
    They’re really not, they don’t know you nor do they care about you. That was just a reframing you did to make them seem malicious, when they’re mostly indifferent, afraid or misinformed.
krater23 5y ago
>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.
- cblconfederate 5y ago
  4 months or could be even less. I don't know if we need to debate that vaccines are not the way out and we need heavy stress on therapies
- fabian2k 5y ago
  We simply don't know. There are other vaccines that require a delayed third dose, so I don't think it is that unlikely that the boosters could cause a much longer-lived immunity. But it could also be that we'll need yearly boosters, or maybe only for the elderly. I'll accept "Our governments failed especially hard this wave", the problems were more predictable this time and the responses were worse.
- zibzab 5y ago
  In the very beginning Germany was doing _extremely_ well, until the protesters showed up. Which is crazy, because Germany managed to do well by good organisation and mass testing, not by lockdowns.
  - retromario 5y ago
    Uh, Germany locked down pretty hard, several times. "Good" organisation and mass testing came later. Source: my last two years with three kids at home
    - oezi 5y ago
      The couple of months of schooling at home wasn't really a hard lockdown when compared with other countries in Europe.
notjes 5y ago
Via polling, you can conjure a majority for most stupidest shit. That is why founding fathers invented the constitution and the bill of rights.
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
>71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. From the article: >Germany, much like Austria, has one of the lowest vaccination rates in western Europe, with 68.4% and 65.6% of eligible adults vaccinated respectively, according to the ECDC. More Germans support mandatory vaccinations than are actually vaccinated? Seems like it should be the opposite. There are many vaccinated people (like myself) who oppose mandatory vaccinations, but are there unvaccinated people who support vaccine mandates? If so, I haven't met one. >It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective, the delays here cause increased load in intensive care and were to some degree avoidable. That's not clear at all. In fact, all the data shows that incidence of mortality and severe illness among those with 2 vaccine doses and 3 is virtually nil. Reducing your chance at mortality while fully vaxxed from 1 in 50,000 to 1 in 100,000 is hardly significant, even though its technically correct that your chances of dying are "double" without the "booster". Nor is there any data that multiple shots reduce transmission rates.
- nwellnhof 5y ago
  The 68.4% number is wrong or outdated or maybe relative to the whole population including minors. Currently, 79.3% of German adults are vaccinated. This is according to official numbers with actual numbers estimated to be up to 5 percentage points higher.
- arrrg 5y ago
  These political polls are typically only include people 18+ (people who can vote), and among those the vaccination rate is around 80 percent.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
2-718-281-828 5y ago
> 71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated? me f.x. I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. I doubt I'm the only one. (https://impfdashboard.de/ https://impfdashboard.de/)
- rory 5y ago
  I'm not sure I buy that the 71% number is representative either but-- presumably they don't poll children, who have lower vaccination rates.
- stnikolauswagne 5y ago
  Your own link puts it at 79,3% of eligible adults with at least 2 shots, from this I would strongly presume that the poll was mostly asking adults and excluded (pre)-teens.
- ribasushi 5y ago
  > I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. Why?
- lm28469 5y ago
  > how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated? It's a poll, they didn't ask every single German citizen about their opinion, you'll always get 0-10% variation depending on the sample

caeril 5y ago

I bet on the order of 71% of Germans supported mandatory discrimination against undesirables in 1940 too, but here we are yet again, claiming that what a majority of the population supports is indicative of moral correctness. If these measures don't work, like literally every authoritarian measure undertaken by governments so far, maybe Germany can put all the un-vaccinated into camps, too. We need to keep the unpure away from us. Sure, the R0 value of the contagion amongst a 100% vaccinated population is still >1.0, and there are early indications that Omicron has a sufficiently mutated spike protein as to render the vaccine immune response ineffective, but why let epidemiological facts stand in the way of exercising power over one's inferiors?

jjoonathan 5y ago
It's really hard to sympathize with people fighting for the "right" to infect me with a disease.
- bavent 5y ago
  And really hard to listen to people compare vaccine mandates to the holocaust.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- mythrwy 5y ago
  It's hard to sympathize with people who still believe this series of vaccines prevents others from spreading infections and thus all measures to require compliance are fine.
  - krastanov 5y ago
    See sibling comments for the citations. Vaccines significantly lower the chance for transmission.
    - mythrwy 5y ago
      Maybe. One non peer reviewed study. Reduces transmission some. For a brief period. How does this translate into force everyone to take an experimental shot (with some number of side effects and deaths) every X months? We see, right now, outside of "studies", I've seen in my own family and I'm not the only one, these vaccines do not stop transmission. They do not stop infection. Maybe they "reduce". They do not stop. So parent posters histrionics about "right to infect me with disease" is just.. histrionics. The vaccinated can also infect him with a disease.
- jimmygrapes 5y ago
  That's what they said back then, too.
- blub 5y ago
  They’re really not, they don’t know you nor do they care about you. That was just a reframing you did to make them seem malicious, when they’re mostly indifferent, afraid or misinformed.

krater23 5y ago

>It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective Looks like you are really a optimist. I would say, 'It's clear now that the vaccines require one dose every 5-6 months to be effective against hard covid symptoms'. Additionally I would not say 'Our governments failed pretty hard in this wave', instead I would say 'Our governments failed hard during the complete pandemic'.

cblconfederate 5y ago
4 months or could be even less. I don't know if we need to debate that vaccines are not the way out and we need heavy stress on therapies
fabian2k 5y ago
We simply don't know. There are other vaccines that require a delayed third dose, so I don't think it is that unlikely that the boosters could cause a much longer-lived immunity. But it could also be that we'll need yearly boosters, or maybe only for the elderly. I'll accept "Our governments failed especially hard this wave", the problems were more predictable this time and the responses were worse.
zibzab 5y ago
In the very beginning Germany was doing _extremely_ well, until the protesters showed up. Which is crazy, because Germany managed to do well by good organisation and mass testing, not by lockdowns.
- retromario 5y ago
  Uh, Germany locked down pretty hard, several times. "Good" organisation and mass testing came later. Source: my last two years with three kids at home
  - oezi 5y ago
    The couple of months of schooling at home wasn't really a hard lockdown when compared with other countries in Europe.

notjes 5y ago

Via polling, you can conjure a majority for most stupidest shit. That is why founding fathers invented the constitution and the bill of rights.

StanislavPetrov 5y ago

>71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. From the article: >Germany, much like Austria, has one of the lowest vaccination rates in western Europe, with 68.4% and 65.6% of eligible adults vaccinated respectively, according to the ECDC. More Germans support mandatory vaccinations than are actually vaccinated? Seems like it should be the opposite. There are many vaccinated people (like myself) who oppose mandatory vaccinations, but are there unvaccinated people who support vaccine mandates? If so, I haven't met one. >It is clear now that the vaccines require 3 doses to be effective, the delays here cause increased load in intensive care and were to some degree avoidable. That's not clear at all. In fact, all the data shows that incidence of mortality and severe illness among those with 2 vaccine doses and 3 is virtually nil. Reducing your chance at mortality while fully vaxxed from 1 in 50,000 to 1 in 100,000 is hardly significant, even though its technically correct that your chances of dying are "double" without the "booster". Nor is there any data that multiple shots reduce transmission rates.

nwellnhof 5y ago
The 68.4% number is wrong or outdated or maybe relative to the whole population including minors. Currently, 79.3% of German adults are vaccinated. This is according to official numbers with actual numbers estimated to be up to 5 percentage points higher.
arrrg 5y ago
These political polls are typically only include people 18+ (people who can vote), and among those the vaccination rate is around 80 percent.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

2-718-281-828 5y ago

> 71% percent of Germans support mandatory vaccinations for COVID, this is from a poll published today. how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated? me f.x. I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. I doubt I'm the only one. (https://impfdashboard.de/ https://impfdashboard.de/)

rory 5y ago
I'm not sure I buy that the 71% number is representative either but-- presumably they don't poll children, who have lower vaccination rates.
stnikolauswagne 5y ago
Your own link puts it at 79,3% of eligible adults with at least 2 shots, from this I would strongly presume that the poll was mostly asking adults and excluded (pre)-teens.
ribasushi 5y ago
> I am fully vaccinated and do not at all support mandatory vaccinations. Why?
lm28469 5y ago
> how does that match up with only 68.7% being fully vaccinated? It's a poll, they didn't ask every single German citizen about their opinion, you'll always get 0-10% variation depending on the sample