3 ms·

that cost overstated by an order of magnitude. last i looked, it’s on the order of $30K/space, and roughly doubles/triples for underground parking (depending on

that cost overstated by an order of magnitude. last i looked, it’s on the order of $30K/space, and roughly doubles/triples for underground parking (depending on depth). i’m a huge advocate for putting all parking underground and leaving ground level space for humans to enjoy fully. it’s more expensive, but we’re a rich city/state/country and we should have nice things.

beerandt 5y ago
Oops, Yea- I fat fingered that from $50k. But that's still roughly double/triple or more what street parking will cost (where space efficiency approaches 100% since driveways and additional access pavement aren't needed). Correct on double to triple for underground, but likely more for buildings with compact or less than ideal footprints (inefficient layout and access) and where structural and utility considerations need to be made for the building overhead. But commercial grade (concrete/lanscaped) surface parking can easily cost $30k+/space, even in non-urban areas. A recent multi-acre university parking lot we did was just shy of $50k/ space (which is why parking garages start making economic sense around that price point), and that was in a 5 digit population college town on the outskirts of campus. But the point remains that structural parking costs > surface parking costs >> street parking. And that street parking shouldn't be thought of as subsidized[1], because as soon as it is considered free lunch for other pet purposes, developers won't relinquish control of it, and will potentially set buildings back an additional 8-25' (parallel-angled, per side of the street) to stay outside of minimum right-of-way widths. [1] In addition to the fact that the dedication and assumption of future maintenance costs is in contractual consideration of the value of the land and improvements dedicated, additional generated tax revenue and economic growth, and is typically required by govt building codes.
- clairity 5y ago
  street parking is a subsidy when viewed through a wider socioeconomic lens because it externalizes a cost onto society in both space and time. in this case, there's a particularly high opportunity cost for that space, most obviously as livable area, but also for alternate modes of transportation (or simply recreational space). similarly, our setbacks and minimum right-of-ways are horrendously large. urban residential streets in LA (where i live) are often 40-50 feet wide curb-to-curb to account for parking on both sides. we're basically wasting not insubstantial bits of interstitial space everywhere in car-oriented cities like mine. but street parking can easily be unsubsidized/internalized by simply pricing all of it, even for municipalities themselves. perhaps then my dream of putting all parking underground would make as much economic sense as it does social sense. my area has a lot of long blocks, and i could totally envision cut-and-cover creating an underground alley right down the middle of the block with parking garages under the back yards of the houses. then you'd only need two cutouts for entry/access while also minimizing the amount of 'driveway' for each property. you could even run utility lines through that space as well.

beerandt 5y ago

Oops, Yea- I fat fingered that from $50k. But that's still roughly double/triple or more what street parking will cost (where space efficiency approaches 100% since driveways and additional access pavement aren't needed). Correct on double to triple for underground, but likely more for buildings with compact or less than ideal footprints (inefficient layout and access) and where structural and utility considerations need to be made for the building overhead. But commercial grade (concrete/lanscaped) surface parking can easily cost $30k+/space, even in non-urban areas. A recent multi-acre university parking lot we did was just shy of $50k/ space (which is why parking garages start making economic sense around that price point), and that was in a 5 digit population college town on the outskirts of campus. But the point remains that structural parking costs > surface parking costs >> street parking. And that street parking shouldn't be thought of as subsidized[1], because as soon as it is considered free lunch for other pet purposes, developers won't relinquish control of it, and will potentially set buildings back an additional 8-25' (parallel-angled, per side of the street) to stay outside of minimum right-of-way widths. [1] In addition to the fact that the dedication and assumption of future maintenance costs is in contractual consideration of the value of the land and improvements dedicated, additional generated tax revenue and economic growth, and is typically required by govt building codes.

clairity 5y ago
street parking is a subsidy when viewed through a wider socioeconomic lens because it externalizes a cost onto society in both space and time. in this case, there's a particularly high opportunity cost for that space, most obviously as livable area, but also for alternate modes of transportation (or simply recreational space). similarly, our setbacks and minimum right-of-ways are horrendously large. urban residential streets in LA (where i live) are often 40-50 feet wide curb-to-curb to account for parking on both sides. we're basically wasting not insubstantial bits of interstitial space everywhere in car-oriented cities like mine. but street parking can easily be unsubsidized/internalized by simply pricing all of it, even for municipalities themselves. perhaps then my dream of putting all parking underground would make as much economic sense as it does social sense. my area has a lot of long blocks, and i could totally envision cut-and-cover creating an underground alley right down the middle of the block with parking garages under the back yards of the houses. then you'd only need two cutouts for entry/access while also minimizing the amount of 'driveway' for each property. you could even run utility lines through that space as well.