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> https://holo.host https://holo.host > HoloToken (HOT) is an ERC-20 token I'm not sure a hierarchy in which the Ethereum Foundation, who gave themselves the

by sva_ 5y ago

> https://holo.host https://holo.host > HoloToken (HOT) is an ERC-20 token I'm not sure a hierarchy in which the Ethereum Foundation, who gave themselves the absolute majority of Ether currency, is at the top, is the answer to the struggles/issues postulated in the essay.

pjkundert 5y ago
Nope, Holo / Holochain has nothing to do with Ethereum; HOT is just the place-holder token (issued during the ICO used to fund the project, initially, a couple of years ago). When the project goes live, it will be exchangeable for the initial HoloFuel cryptocurrency.
moffkalast 5y ago
I'm pretty sure anything running on the mainnet these days will be 10x more expensive than a classic centralized option just with gas fees and is as such completely useless.
- handrous 5y ago
  Also: - Economy of scale means this won't be "AirBnB for hosting". I can't negotiate power costs or get as much efficiency out of my operations as someone with a real datacenter. Not even close. [EDIT: see also, Bitcoin mining, which started out "anyone can do it!" but wasn't anymore as soon as real money got involved. Just buy an expensive rack of ASICs that aren't good for anything else, and find some place to arbitrage power costs. Yeah, real accessible to the masses, that is.] - All these "decentralize everything down to the end user" efforts neglect that most personal computing devices run on battery and sleep most of the time, these days, and that trend does not seem likely to reverse. See also: IPFS. Most folks don't have an always-on desktop- or server-class computer for this sort of thing, at all, and would have to buy one to participate. That's not super appealing. Also, decentralization tends to come at costs for routing and lookup, which often end up eating cycles (so, power, so, battery) on the end user's machine, compared with centralized options. See again: IPFS. So they end up adding centralized access points that are what most users actually interact with (see, yet again...) or their entire audience is computer nerds. If they have any real, viable use case, it ends up being as part of a centralized system, to help make it more resilient or cheaper to operate.
  - kizer 5y ago
    Just to make a point, it's fine if something's audience is entirely composed of computer nerds or academics at first. After refinement it can gradually make its way into consumer world; e.g., the internet, the most successful distributed system.
- DenseComet 5y ago
  Yep there is so much overhead to making things decentralized. Take a look at filecoin sealing. Its a super cool system with a bunch of fun cryptography and math, but generating the proofs requires a lot of time and compute power and adds a whole bunch of restrictions to how you can upload data. If you really, really, want to say your storage is decentralized, use it, but S3 is a 1000x simpler. https://spec.filecoin.io/systems/filecoin_mining/sector/sealing/ https://spec.filecoin.io/systems/filecoin_mining/sector/seal... https://docs.filecoin.io/mine/hardware-requirements/ https://docs.filecoin.io/mine/hardware-requirements/
almostkorean 5y ago
What makes you think Ethereum Foundation gave themselves the majority of Ether? I'm pretty sure it was 15% but I might be wrong
- sva_ 5y ago
  https://etherscan.io/stat/supply https://etherscan.io/stat/supply 72 million Ether were premined
  - TacticalCoder 5y ago
    Out of which 12 millions went to the Ethereum foundation. The other 60 millions were given to people who crowdfunded the project (and they did it using BTC). The ETH supply has more or less doubled since now. The Ethereum foundation holds today about 10% of all Ethereum and as far as I know they are "locked" in a smart contract. One can criticize Ethereum and crypto as much as he wants, Vitalik Buterin (the creator of Ethereum) seems someone to be driven by something he believes in and not by money. If you read his blog posts / Twitter feed / comments on issues / EIP etc. the dude is relentless.
    - CryptoPunk 5y ago
      The EF only received 3.5 million ETH initially: https://i.ibb.co/54sS0NY/FFi-K9m-CVg-AETZNA-format-png-name-small.png https://i.ibb.co/54sS0NY/FFi-K9m-CVg-AETZNA-format-png-name-... It holds 350K ETH at this point, or 0.3% of the ETH supply: https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e40f4cb697bae https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e4...
treelovinhippie 5y ago
HOT is a temporary placeholder for HoloFuel which is a mutual credit currency: https://blog.holochain.org/mutual-credit-part-1-a-new-type-of-cryptocurrency-as-old-as-civilisation/ https://blog.holochain.org/mutual-credit-part-1-a-new-type-o...
CryptoPunk 5y ago
Ethereum Foundation had at most 6 percent of tokens, and today has less than 0.3 percent, because it liquidated the vast majority to fund various software projects that made the Ethereum network possible.

by sva_ 5y ago

pjkundert 5y ago

Nope, Holo / Holochain has nothing to do with Ethereum; HOT is just the place-holder token (issued during the ICO used to fund the project, initially, a couple of years ago). When the project goes live, it will be exchangeable for the initial HoloFuel cryptocurrency.

moffkalast 5y ago

I'm pretty sure anything running on the mainnet these days will be 10x more expensive than a classic centralized option just with gas fees and is as such completely useless.

handrous 5y ago
Also: - Economy of scale means this won't be "AirBnB for hosting". I can't negotiate power costs or get as much efficiency out of my operations as someone with a real datacenter. Not even close. [EDIT: see also, Bitcoin mining, which started out "anyone can do it!" but wasn't anymore as soon as real money got involved. Just buy an expensive rack of ASICs that aren't good for anything else, and find some place to arbitrage power costs. Yeah, real accessible to the masses, that is.] - All these "decentralize everything down to the end user" efforts neglect that most personal computing devices run on battery and sleep most of the time, these days, and that trend does not seem likely to reverse. See also: IPFS. Most folks don't have an always-on desktop- or server-class computer for this sort of thing, at all, and would have to buy one to participate. That's not super appealing. Also, decentralization tends to come at costs for routing and lookup, which often end up eating cycles (so, power, so, battery) on the end user's machine, compared with centralized options. See again: IPFS. So they end up adding centralized access points that are what most users actually interact with (see, yet again...) or their entire audience is computer nerds. If they have any real, viable use case, it ends up being as part of a centralized system, to help make it more resilient or cheaper to operate.
- kizer 5y ago
  Just to make a point, it's fine if something's audience is entirely composed of computer nerds or academics at first. After refinement it can gradually make its way into consumer world; e.g., the internet, the most successful distributed system.
DenseComet 5y ago
Yep there is so much overhead to making things decentralized. Take a look at filecoin sealing. Its a super cool system with a bunch of fun cryptography and math, but generating the proofs requires a lot of time and compute power and adds a whole bunch of restrictions to how you can upload data. If you really, really, want to say your storage is decentralized, use it, but S3 is a 1000x simpler. https://spec.filecoin.io/systems/filecoin_mining/sector/sealing/ https://spec.filecoin.io/systems/filecoin_mining/sector/seal... https://docs.filecoin.io/mine/hardware-requirements/ https://docs.filecoin.io/mine/hardware-requirements/

almostkorean 5y ago

What makes you think Ethereum Foundation gave themselves the majority of Ether? I'm pretty sure it was 15% but I might be wrong

sva_ 5y ago
https://etherscan.io/stat/supply https://etherscan.io/stat/supply 72 million Ether were premined
- TacticalCoder 5y ago
  Out of which 12 millions went to the Ethereum foundation. The other 60 millions were given to people who crowdfunded the project (and they did it using BTC). The ETH supply has more or less doubled since now. The Ethereum foundation holds today about 10% of all Ethereum and as far as I know they are "locked" in a smart contract. One can criticize Ethereum and crypto as much as he wants, Vitalik Buterin (the creator of Ethereum) seems someone to be driven by something he believes in and not by money. If you read his blog posts / Twitter feed / comments on issues / EIP etc. the dude is relentless.
  - CryptoPunk 5y ago
    The EF only received 3.5 million ETH initially: https://i.ibb.co/54sS0NY/FFi-K9m-CVg-AETZNA-format-png-name-small.png https://i.ibb.co/54sS0NY/FFi-K9m-CVg-AETZNA-format-png-name-... It holds 350K ETH at this point, or 0.3% of the ETH supply: https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e40f4cb697bae https://etherscan.io/address/0xde0b295669a9fd93d5f28d9ec85e4...

treelovinhippie 5y ago

HOT is a temporary placeholder for HoloFuel which is a mutual credit currency: https://blog.holochain.org/mutual-credit-part-1-a-new-type-of-cryptocurrency-as-old-as-civilisation/ https://blog.holochain.org/mutual-credit-part-1-a-new-type-o...

CryptoPunk 5y ago

Ethereum Foundation had at most 6 percent of tokens, and today has less than 0.3 percent, because it liquidated the vast majority to fund various software projects that made the Ethereum network possible.