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Thanks, that was an interesting video. I had to rely on auto-translated subtitles but from the little Dutch I can understand, it seems like they got the gist ac

by nzk 5y ago

Thanks, that was an interesting video. I had to rely on auto-translated subtitles but from the little Dutch I can understand, it seems like they got the gist across. Yeah, Germany has a ton of ICU beds in comparison, and yet, we're struggling exactly the same as any other country. I find it strange, too. In early 2020 I expected we'd see big differences between different countries based on ICU capacity, but we saw the same story everywhere (regional overload around the peak of a wave), with a few minor differences (whether some patients are transferred within the country or to other countries). Perhaps countries have different standards for when they put patients in ICU's, allowing hospitals (and governments) to always operate close to capacity? Would be one explanation, but I really don't know. High total number notwithstanding though, our ICU capacity actually decreased during the pandemic, see: https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen The graph under "Gesamtzahl gemeldeter Intensivbetten" shows total capacity (light blue) + emergency reserve (green), dark blue is occupied beds. There was a pretty sharp drop-off in the total capacity a year ago, and a slower decrease all throughout 2021. Apparently, that's mostly due to nurses quitting in droves since the pandemic made their already bad working conditions even worse. Our politicians didn't lift a finger to prevent or revert this, and now they're blaming a minority for this massive, massive failure. Just makes me really angry, I'll take downvotes for that if I have to :)

wsc981 5y ago
> Perhaps countries have different standards for when they put patients in ICU's, allowing hospitals (and governments) to always operate close to capacity? Would be one explanation, but I really don't know. There's different standards in different countries for sure. In The Netherlands there's a focus on quality of life. If a patient cannot have a decent quality of life after staying on ICU, there's a preference to provide the patient with palliative care instead. In (e.g.) Italy this approach would not be accepted.
i_don_t_know 5y ago
The number of ICU beds may have been inflated. At the start of the pandemic, hospitals had to report available ICU beds, and they received money for the number of beds they reported. I know of two hospitals that reported all of their beds (the physical objects) when the intention of the law / regulation was to have only those beds reported that could be operated / staffed.

by nzk 5y ago

wsc981 5y ago

> Perhaps countries have different standards for when they put patients in ICU's, allowing hospitals (and governments) to always operate close to capacity? Would be one explanation, but I really don't know. There's different standards in different countries for sure. In The Netherlands there's a focus on quality of life. If a patient cannot have a decent quality of life after staying on ICU, there's a preference to provide the patient with palliative care instead. In (e.g.) Italy this approach would not be accepted.

i_don_t_know 5y ago

The number of ICU beds may have been inflated. At the start of the pandemic, hospitals had to report available ICU beds, and they received money for the number of beds they reported. I know of two hospitals that reported all of their beds (the physical objects) when the intention of the law / regulation was to have only those beds reported that could be operated / staffed.