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> "effective vaccines actually suppress variant formation" is going to get him yelled at for supporting antivaxer arguments, I bet. And yet you call this simpl
by jaywalk 5y ago
> "effective vaccines actually suppress variant formation" is going to get him yelled at for supporting antivaxer arguments, I bet.
And yet you call this simple, scientific fact that wouldn't have been remotely controversial two years ago an "antivaxer argument"
- Retric 5y agoWhy is that supposed to be an antivaxer argument? It doesn’t mean an effective vaccine eliminates variant formation.
- jaywalk 5y agoI have no idea, I'm not the one who said it was. Even though the Covid vaccines don't prevent infection and transmission, by helping the body fight off the virus they absolutely do help prevent variant formation.
- landemva 5y agoVariants are developing in animals like cats and deer, and spreading back to humans. The sooner we get to variants that are highly transmissible with only cold-like effects, the sooner we can stop the nonsense about trying to prevent variants.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- metamet 5y agoThey also do reduce infection and transmission, just not completely prevent it all the time.
- jaywalk 5y agoThey definitely do not reduce transmission, at least not with the currently circulating variants: https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-similar-between-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people https://www.ucdavis.edu/health/covid-19/news/viral-loads-sim...
- Retric 5y agoThat doesn’t support your argument. Although vaccinated people with a breakthrough infection are much less likely to become severely ill than unvaccinated, the new study shows that they can be carrying similar amounts of virus and could potentially spread the virus to other people Could potentially spread is not the same as saying their equally likely to spread. Fewer infections and less severe cases both reduce transmission to the general population at least in the short term. Long term it may be that effectively everyone gets either COVID and or the vaccine.
- jaywalk 5y agoWhen I say they don't reduce transmission, I mean (and the article backs up) that an infected vaccinated person transmits the virus just as much as an infected unvaccinated person. Probability of infection between the two groups is a different subject.
- Retric 5y agoThey specifically say: “Our study does not provide information on infectiousness.” That said, if people are equally infections while sick, but their sick for a shorter period then their less likely to infect others.
- kgwgk 5y agoI don't think it's an antivaxer argument but if you develop the reasoning it really becomes somewhat controversial. The problem is that vaccines are not completely effective (efficacy goes down with time, is lower against new variants, there are breakthrough infections, etc.) so variant formation is not completely supressed. Everything being equal (given one exposed or even one infected person) you may have less variant formation with vaccines. But when you have more infections you will end up having more variants. That the number of infections would increase as people's behaviour adapted to the lower fatality rate was not unexpected: people take more risks because the prognosis of an infection is not so bad anyway, once infected they may have a mild, undiagnosed evolution and still contribution propagation... And it's no longer an hypothetical scenario. In many European countries there are more infections now than ever before.