10 ms·

Outside of requiring a newer PC I don't think Win11 is a trainwreck at all, I was auto-upgraded to it a few weeks ago and it's been fine. Auto HDR is neat for g

by tapoxi 5y ago

Outside of requiring a newer PC I don't think Win11 is a trainwreck at all, I was auto-upgraded to it a few weeks ago and it's been fine. Auto HDR is neat for games and there's been a UI refresh, other than that it's basically Windows 10.

0x0nyandesu 5y ago
Every windows since 7 has been a train wreck by my standards. The amount of times I've had a system update just clear my windows profile is objectively abysmal and yet every HN thread someone will go and defend them. No one cares about HDR. How about some decent data retention? I get better frame rates in Linux running wine than I do in windows 10 since the 2020 updates.
- orev 5y ago
  Not saying that there aren’t issues, but the fact that billions of people use Windows and don’t routinely have their profiles wiped out with every update points to a specific issue with your setup; not a systemic Windows problem.
  - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
    Oy vey. You're objectively incorrect. It's definitely a Microsoft issue. They use the old OS upgrade procedure to do quarterly updates now which means if it finds a Users directory it will rename it to Users.old and make a new one. However if it does two upgrades in a row in the background without telling you the old Users.old will be deleted from your disk. Now all it would take them is a second to check the sizes of both and not remove the one with actual data but ya know that would be a actual useful feature. And before you complain about to me about my "setup"... The scenario I described above is entirely common in IT departments the world over. Now please stop blaming victims and start blaming the people that have the power to change things.
    - AshleyGrant 5y ago
      citation needed I just upgraded to Windows 10 21H2 last week, after upgrading to 21H1 a couple weeks ago. I'm looking at my C:\ drive with hidden files viewable and there is no "Users.old" or "Windows.old" folders. This is on Windows 10 Pro using my personal Microsoft account, but the PC is managed through Intune so I can access corporate resources. What I'm saying is, to use your own words, "you're objectively incorrect."
      - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
        Not every windows update generates them but it is still possible to hit two in a row that do when you update old installs of 10 from 2020 that have precached an incremental update. I'm not writing a research paper here. If you want citations you can put on your research hat and find them yourself.
    - CJefferson 5y ago
      I've never heard of this -- I've just tried googling and I can't find anything about automatically deleted, or even created, "Users.old" folder (I realise you might not have got the name exactly right). Sometimes individual user directories get moved if they are corrupted, but they still aren't in my experience deleted.
  - misnome 5y ago
    For large proportions of people a misbehaving operating system is just "how computers work" and it would be like complaining that water is wet.
    - orev 5y ago
      There’s a huge difference between “I need to reboot to fix some wonky thing” and “all my data gets deleted every time there’s a Windows update”. People would very much notice the latter as being a problem.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  What the hell are you doing with your Windows profiles. I've admin'd many Windows machines and have a Windows install AND a VM windows install and have literally never had a problem with windows profile. Have you at least attempted to debug the issue, or can you point to a issue report you have filed? This is someone who uses linux for 99.99% of all computing things, so its not like I'm a Windows shill
  - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
    Run two upgrades in a row..see how it goes for you. I ran insider edition for years and that's a pretty common scenario when doing updates. And that's not even the legit bugs that have occured as well.
    - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      I've done this for dozens of computers. I have not seen this issue.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    They might mean things like having all their file type associations wiped out because feature updates insist on doing that, rather than literally having their profile destroyed. Then again, I've seen Windows do weirder things.
    - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
      Both.
      - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
        Provide issue links
        hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
        Here you go: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/updates-that-delete-your-profile/3b3badad-63fb-46b0-a302-34712d45bf74 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update... https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update-deleted-my-profile/8c59c9d7-cf12-486d-87ca-3ad9e91b4d7d https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update... https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-update-deleted-my-main-profile/4151e469-84df-4247-814d-715e8a27b132 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window... https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-10-update-deleted-user-profiles/0ddab4b6-83e3-4525-8bbb-964cd2c57845 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window... and numerous others. Why does it happen? I have no idea, and probably Microsoft doesn't either. Nevertheless, it means the update process is broken. After such a case you may feel like you have the alternative of either running unsecure system or losing your data, so you may even consider the first option. Except you can't unless you pay for the Enterprise version.
- passivate 5y ago
  People defend Windows because they don't have the same experience as you. I don't either. Windows is a rock solid OS that I use at work and it just works. For instance, the machine I'm typing this on has a 250 day uptime, my second W10 box next to it has a 460 day uptime. I use them every day to get stuff done. I work in biotech, not in s/w dev land, and my computer is IT managed (so maybe they're doing something special). I don't ever fiddle with the OS, registry or whatever and I usually can find a PortableApps option for stuff that I need to use.
  - selfhoster11 5y ago
    My one guilty pleasure as a Linux user, was using my work laptop that was managed by the IT team. It was the only way I could ever use Windows 10 and describe the experience as "pleasant". I guess the almost complete lack of forced reboots/update installations and stupid junk on the default install contributed to the experience. I still used a Start Menu replacer. That was one thing I wouldn't want to give up.
  - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
    You use vastly fewer things than I do on my daily driver. I'm not complaining about stability. I still maintain windows boxes for work and yes I get uptimes measured in years. In fact I used to be a windows fanboy. The issue is really that the front end experience has gone to shit and that windows boxes are inherently zero day hackable at random. With gaming there's memory leaks out the ass. When doing updates windows regularly ignores and resets settings. Not everyone wants to use defaults and not everyone has time to edit group policy settings every time there's a changes. Your IT team is definitely 100% debloating your system before imaging. I'm over here coding, running vms, setting up ssh tunnels, streaming, recording video, playing music, doing teleconferencing and all manner of other nonsense. So yes my standards are a little out there. But frankly I don't think windows should be able to be HIPAA certified because I don't believe it's possible to secure it. And trust me that's my job. The workers at my job that use Chromebooks are by far the most secure in our entire IT stack.
rob74 5y ago
"requiring a newer PC" is a bit of an understatement - Windows 11 is the first version that will actively refuse to run unless the hardware meets its "compatibility" requirements, and from what I heard, it's quite picky...
- rnd0 5y ago
  There are pretty easy to use workarounds -such as rufus, though that may change.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  Older Windows versions required a particular amount of RAM to install, which was a check that could be disabled from the install media. That said, I do agree that Windows 11 is on a new level when it comes to this.
coliveira 5y ago
> I was auto-upgraded to it a few weeks ago The train wreck starts there. Who wants a system that auto upgrades itself without the user permission?
- drcongo 5y ago
  That, and most of the rest of the parent comment, made me believe the post was a joke.
- kgwxd 5y ago
  Technically that's a flaw of Windows 10, maybe they fixed it in 11 :)
- ChrisLTD 5y ago
  I want auto updates for security patches, please.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Good for you, there should be a checkbox so I don't have to suffer for your preferences.
    - thesuitonym 5y ago
      There is, just turn off Windows Updates.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        It isn't so straight forward if you aren't in the know on special tooling like O&O ShutUp 10 to accomplish it for you. Even then it'll get reset after updating and you'll have to fix it again. There is no "don't ever update unless I tell you to" checkbox, there is only the option to pause them for a limited time. Windows is actively user hostile when it comes to updates.
        5y ago
baybal2 5y ago
Win11 is a wreck just because they effectively made it non-installable on 5 out of 6 PCs. Prime majority of users don't upgrade BIOS, or don't even know what it is. 11 will be a short lived release just because of that, and them not only needing to backpedal, but to entice users into biting into a new bait, as all what is actually good in Win11 been kind of mentally displaced by the fiasco. A supposedly sucks less Win11.1 will not do it to attract more users. A completely new release is coming.
stronglikedan 5y ago
> it's basically Windows 10. It's crippled compared to Win10.
Duralias 5y ago
While my laptop definitely got more unstable after being upgraded (might be better with a clean install), I could never put it on my actual gaming machine, because I play VR and right now it is a coin flip if VR just won't work for you at all.
rnd0 5y ago
I used the rufus work-around to install it, and I'm nervous that it'll die after an update for that reason. Aside from that, and a couple of UI annoyances (the placement of the start button and the re-arrangement of the start menu) I'm happy enough with Windows 11 that it will be a bummer for me if I have to go back. For me it's little things like the way the context menu is cleaned up -but the old one is still available, and the file manager is similarly cleaned up. I also like that WSL is better than it was on Windows 10 (running gui apps are now an option without grafting a separate and half-assed X implementation ). So yeah, I'd say "trainwreck" is a hyperbole -especially for anyone who had to use Windows 8!

by tapoxi 5y ago

0x0nyandesu 5y ago

Every windows since 7 has been a train wreck by my standards. The amount of times I've had a system update just clear my windows profile is objectively abysmal and yet every HN thread someone will go and defend them. No one cares about HDR. How about some decent data retention? I get better frame rates in Linux running wine than I do in windows 10 since the 2020 updates.

orev 5y ago
Not saying that there aren’t issues, but the fact that billions of people use Windows and don’t routinely have their profiles wiped out with every update points to a specific issue with your setup; not a systemic Windows problem.
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  Oy vey. You're objectively incorrect. It's definitely a Microsoft issue. They use the old OS upgrade procedure to do quarterly updates now which means if it finds a Users directory it will rename it to Users.old and make a new one. However if it does two upgrades in a row in the background without telling you the old Users.old will be deleted from your disk. Now all it would take them is a second to check the sizes of both and not remove the one with actual data but ya know that would be a actual useful feature. And before you complain about to me about my "setup"... The scenario I described above is entirely common in IT departments the world over. Now please stop blaming victims and start blaming the people that have the power to change things.
  - AshleyGrant 5y ago
    citation needed I just upgraded to Windows 10 21H2 last week, after upgrading to 21H1 a couple weeks ago. I'm looking at my C:\ drive with hidden files viewable and there is no "Users.old" or "Windows.old" folders. This is on Windows 10 Pro using my personal Microsoft account, but the PC is managed through Intune so I can access corporate resources. What I'm saying is, to use your own words, "you're objectively incorrect."
    - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
      Not every windows update generates them but it is still possible to hit two in a row that do when you update old installs of 10 from 2020 that have precached an incremental update. I'm not writing a research paper here. If you want citations you can put on your research hat and find them yourself.
  - CJefferson 5y ago
    I've never heard of this -- I've just tried googling and I can't find anything about automatically deleted, or even created, "Users.old" folder (I realise you might not have got the name exactly right). Sometimes individual user directories get moved if they are corrupted, but they still aren't in my experience deleted.
- misnome 5y ago
  For large proportions of people a misbehaving operating system is just "how computers work" and it would be like complaining that water is wet.
  - orev 5y ago
    There’s a huge difference between “I need to reboot to fix some wonky thing” and “all my data gets deleted every time there’s a Windows update”. People would very much notice the latter as being a problem.
NikolaeVarius 5y ago
What the hell are you doing with your Windows profiles. I've admin'd many Windows machines and have a Windows install AND a VM windows install and have literally never had a problem with windows profile. Have you at least attempted to debug the issue, or can you point to a issue report you have filed? This is someone who uses linux for 99.99% of all computing things, so its not like I'm a Windows shill
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  Run two upgrades in a row..see how it goes for you. I ran insider edition for years and that's a pretty common scenario when doing updates. And that's not even the legit bugs that have occured as well.
  - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
    I've done this for dozens of computers. I have not seen this issue.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  They might mean things like having all their file type associations wiped out because feature updates insist on doing that, rather than literally having their profile destroyed. Then again, I've seen Windows do weirder things.
  - 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
    Both.
    - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      Provide issue links
      - hdjjhhvvhga 5y ago
        Here you go: https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/updates-that-delete-your-profile/3b3badad-63fb-46b0-a302-34712d45bf74 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update... https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update-deleted-my-profile/8c59c9d7-cf12-486d-87ca-3ad9e91b4d7d https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/update... https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-update-deleted-my-main-profile/4151e469-84df-4247-814d-715e8a27b132 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window... https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-10-update-deleted-user-profiles/0ddab4b6-83e3-4525-8bbb-964cd2c57845 https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/window... and numerous others. Why does it happen? I have no idea, and probably Microsoft doesn't either. Nevertheless, it means the update process is broken. After such a case you may feel like you have the alternative of either running unsecure system or losing your data, so you may even consider the first option. Except you can't unless you pay for the Enterprise version.
passivate 5y ago
People defend Windows because they don't have the same experience as you. I don't either. Windows is a rock solid OS that I use at work and it just works. For instance, the machine I'm typing this on has a 250 day uptime, my second W10 box next to it has a 460 day uptime. I use them every day to get stuff done. I work in biotech, not in s/w dev land, and my computer is IT managed (so maybe they're doing something special). I don't ever fiddle with the OS, registry or whatever and I usually can find a PortableApps option for stuff that I need to use.
- selfhoster11 5y ago
  My one guilty pleasure as a Linux user, was using my work laptop that was managed by the IT team. It was the only way I could ever use Windows 10 and describe the experience as "pleasant". I guess the almost complete lack of forced reboots/update installations and stupid junk on the default install contributed to the experience. I still used a Start Menu replacer. That was one thing I wouldn't want to give up.
- 0x0nyandesu 5y ago
  You use vastly fewer things than I do on my daily driver. I'm not complaining about stability. I still maintain windows boxes for work and yes I get uptimes measured in years. In fact I used to be a windows fanboy. The issue is really that the front end experience has gone to shit and that windows boxes are inherently zero day hackable at random. With gaming there's memory leaks out the ass. When doing updates windows regularly ignores and resets settings. Not everyone wants to use defaults and not everyone has time to edit group policy settings every time there's a changes. Your IT team is definitely 100% debloating your system before imaging. I'm over here coding, running vms, setting up ssh tunnels, streaming, recording video, playing music, doing teleconferencing and all manner of other nonsense. So yes my standards are a little out there. But frankly I don't think windows should be able to be HIPAA certified because I don't believe it's possible to secure it. And trust me that's my job. The workers at my job that use Chromebooks are by far the most secure in our entire IT stack.

rob74 5y ago

"requiring a newer PC" is a bit of an understatement - Windows 11 is the first version that will actively refuse to run unless the hardware meets its "compatibility" requirements, and from what I heard, it's quite picky...

rnd0 5y ago
There are pretty easy to use workarounds -such as rufus, though that may change.
selfhoster11 5y ago
Older Windows versions required a particular amount of RAM to install, which was a check that could be disabled from the install media. That said, I do agree that Windows 11 is on a new level when it comes to this.

coliveira 5y ago

> I was auto-upgraded to it a few weeks ago The train wreck starts there. Who wants a system that auto upgrades itself without the user permission?

drcongo 5y ago
That, and most of the rest of the parent comment, made me believe the post was a joke.
kgwxd 5y ago
Technically that's a flaw of Windows 10, maybe they fixed it in 11 :)
ChrisLTD 5y ago
I want auto updates for security patches, please.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Good for you, there should be a checkbox so I don't have to suffer for your preferences.
  - thesuitonym 5y ago
    There is, just turn off Windows Updates.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      It isn't so straight forward if you aren't in the know on special tooling like O&O ShutUp 10 to accomplish it for you. Even then it'll get reset after updating and you'll have to fix it again. There is no "don't ever update unless I tell you to" checkbox, there is only the option to pause them for a limited time. Windows is actively user hostile when it comes to updates.
      - 5y ago

baybal2 5y ago

Win11 is a wreck just because they effectively made it non-installable on 5 out of 6 PCs. Prime majority of users don't upgrade BIOS, or don't even know what it is. 11 will be a short lived release just because of that, and them not only needing to backpedal, but to entice users into biting into a new bait, as all what is actually good in Win11 been kind of mentally displaced by the fiasco. A supposedly sucks less Win11.1 will not do it to attract more users. A completely new release is coming.

stronglikedan 5y ago

> it's basically Windows 10. It's crippled compared to Win10.

Duralias 5y ago

While my laptop definitely got more unstable after being upgraded (might be better with a clean install), I could never put it on my actual gaming machine, because I play VR and right now it is a coin flip if VR just won't work for you at all.

rnd0 5y ago

I used the rufus work-around to install it, and I'm nervous that it'll die after an update for that reason. Aside from that, and a couple of UI annoyances (the placement of the start button and the re-arrangement of the start menu) I'm happy enough with Windows 11 that it will be a bummer for me if I have to go back. For me it's little things like the way the context menu is cleaned up -but the old one is still available, and the file manager is similarly cleaned up. I also like that WSL is better than it was on Windows 10 (running gui apps are now an option without grafting a separate and half-assed X implementation ). So yeah, I'd say "trainwreck" is a hyperbole -especially for anyone who had to use Windows 8!