4 ms·

There are a lot more layers to the case than you would originally think. Like an obligation to flee if reasonable to do so etc. Legal Eagle on YT did a great br

There are a lot more layers to the case than you would originally think. Like an obligation to flee if reasonable to do so etc. Legal Eagle on YT did a great breakdown of it all. It's not as simple as "can't claim self-defence if you initiated violence yourself".

trhway 5y ago
>Like an obligation to flee if reasonable to do so etc. If you're targeted personally i suppose. When the violence isn't targeted your running away wouldn't change the situation if there are other people around who can be shot. That reminds about that veteran who attacked the shooter several years ago at the Oregon college - he could have fled i guess, yet he didn't. Did he had an obligation to flee? I don't think anybody there entertained even for a moment such nonsense idea as the shooter's self-defense against the veteran who attacked him and got wounded in that fight. In Kenosha though the shooter shot the guys who tried to stop him (and from any point of view he was the active shooter to be stopped as he didn't stay with his first victim calling/waiting for police and rendering help to the victim as one would do in a true self-defense situation, and as an active shooter he was a threat to everybody, a threat that the people have the right to defend themselves from), and it somehow got successfully sold as self-defense on his part.
- hajile 5y ago
  Oregon does NOT have a stand your ground law. If that were the only statute, he'd be guilty of murder (showing that such a law is not well thought out). My guess is they have another law (like most states do) that allows coming to the defense of someone else.
- Svettie 5y ago
  "a true self-defense situation", according to who? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
redis_mlc 5y ago
> Like an obligation to flee if reasonable to do so etc. Generally speaking, that's not the law in the US, and not recommended unless you're Usain Bolt. For example, in California, the law is you do not have to retreat. Other states have "stand your ground" laws. However, generally speaking, parties cannot flee and then return to fight. So the best legal approach is to continue the fight if you think you can incapacitate the attacker, then retreat and call police. I watched the Kyle videos, and he did what was prudent and legal. Actually, I've talked to several young people and they all think they can block the path of other people or act in an aggressive manner, and always act surpised when I tell them they will get knocked out if it continues. Their expression is like, "That can't possibly happen to me." If you watch the Kyle and 2020 BLM riots, you can tell the assailants don't realize the personal danger they're in when they run at a random stranger, who could be armed or trained to defend themselves. An overweight woman on a bicycle attacked one of Larry Elder's bodyguards earlier this year. One shove and she would have fallen sideways hard on the pavement. Luckily for her, he was a trained bodyguard and was paid to move Larry along, not get involved in the crowd scene.
Akronymus 5y ago
> Legal Eagle on YT did a great breakdown of it all. I strongly disagree. He left out some very important details from the video. Whether by accident or not, doesn't really matter in this case, IMO. (I know he issued corrections/clarifications in the comments, but most people are not gonna read those)

trhway 5y ago

>Like an obligation to flee if reasonable to do so etc. If you're targeted personally i suppose. When the violence isn't targeted your running away wouldn't change the situation if there are other people around who can be shot. That reminds about that veteran who attacked the shooter several years ago at the Oregon college - he could have fled i guess, yet he didn't. Did he had an obligation to flee? I don't think anybody there entertained even for a moment such nonsense idea as the shooter's self-defense against the veteran who attacked him and got wounded in that fight. In Kenosha though the shooter shot the guys who tried to stop him (and from any point of view he was the active shooter to be stopped as he didn't stay with his first victim calling/waiting for police and rendering help to the victim as one would do in a true self-defense situation, and as an active shooter he was a threat to everybody, a threat that the people have the right to defend themselves from), and it somehow got successfully sold as self-defense on his part.

hajile 5y ago
Oregon does NOT have a stand your ground law. If that were the only statute, he'd be guilty of murder (showing that such a law is not well thought out). My guess is they have another law (like most states do) that allows coming to the defense of someone else.
Svettie 5y ago
"a true self-defense situation", according to who? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

redis_mlc 5y ago

> Like an obligation to flee if reasonable to do so etc. Generally speaking, that's not the law in the US, and not recommended unless you're Usain Bolt. For example, in California, the law is you do not have to retreat. Other states have "stand your ground" laws. However, generally speaking, parties cannot flee and then return to fight. So the best legal approach is to continue the fight if you think you can incapacitate the attacker, then retreat and call police. I watched the Kyle videos, and he did what was prudent and legal. Actually, I've talked to several young people and they all think they can block the path of other people or act in an aggressive manner, and always act surpised when I tell them they will get knocked out if it continues. Their expression is like, "That can't possibly happen to me." If you watch the Kyle and 2020 BLM riots, you can tell the assailants don't realize the personal danger they're in when they run at a random stranger, who could be armed or trained to defend themselves. An overweight woman on a bicycle attacked one of Larry Elder's bodyguards earlier this year. One shove and she would have fallen sideways hard on the pavement. Luckily for her, he was a trained bodyguard and was paid to move Larry along, not get involved in the crowd scene.

Akronymus 5y ago

> Legal Eagle on YT did a great breakdown of it all. I strongly disagree. He left out some very important details from the video. Whether by accident or not, doesn't really matter in this case, IMO. (I know he issued corrections/clarifications in the comments, but most people are not gonna read those)