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Interesting, but misleading beyond the title. One part that deserves attention about the Israel outbreak: "Fourteen fully vaccinated patients became severely i

Interesting, but misleading beyond the title. One part that deserves attention about the Israel outbreak: "Fourteen fully vaccinated patients became severely ill or died, the two unvaccinated patients developed mild disease". This seems to imply an adverse effect of the vaccine. On the contrary, what happened is that patients were either older or had comorbidities - check https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.39.2100822 https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.E... and https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/table/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.39.2100822.t1?fmt=ahah&fullscreen=true https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/table/10.2807/1560-... The last phrase of the article, though, has its merits: "It appears to be grossly negligent to ignore the vaccinated population as a possible and relevant source of transmission when deciding about public health control measures." This is true. New measures like the new italian "super green pass" exclude unvaccinated from certain activities (cafes, theaters, cinemas) even when they can exhibit a negative Covid-19 test. This makes no sense; the latter group has fewer chances of transmitting the disease than the former. On the contrary, it could make sense to have an "admission priority" in hospital wards when they're full, depending on whether you're vaccinated or not; because, hospitalization-wise, that's totally relevant. No vaccine would imply lower priority when requiring access to medical wards.

dataflow 5y ago
> This makes no sense; the latter group has fewer chances of transmitting the disease than the former. I think you're only looking at transmission of a pre-existing infection during the event. You don't seem to be looking at transmission that happens later but that was caused by attending the event (and getting the virus), nor do you appear to be looking at the number of people who get the disease directly at the event. Shouldn't those be factored in as well?
- AstralStorm 5y ago
  The big thing about the vaccine is that it vastly reduces the chance that infection converts to an illness. For that to happen, you need to be immune compromised in some way or get hit with an immune avoiding variant. It only slightly shortens time for transmitting the virus. Hence silent infected people who are vaccinated might not even know they're carriers. Hence everyone should still be wearing masks to limit the spread.
  - mizzack 5y ago
    I don't think you read the (brief) article. > In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older [[2] ]. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission.

dataflow 5y ago

> This makes no sense; the latter group has fewer chances of transmitting the disease than the former. I think you're only looking at transmission of a pre-existing infection during the event. You don't seem to be looking at transmission that happens later but that was caused by attending the event (and getting the virus), nor do you appear to be looking at the number of people who get the disease directly at the event. Shouldn't those be factored in as well?

AstralStorm 5y ago
The big thing about the vaccine is that it vastly reduces the chance that infection converts to an illness. For that to happen, you need to be immune compromised in some way or get hit with an immune avoiding variant. It only slightly shortens time for transmitting the virus. Hence silent infected people who are vaccinated might not even know they're carriers. Hence everyone should still be wearing masks to limit the spread.
- mizzack 5y ago
  I don't think you read the (brief) article. > In Germany, the rate of symptomatic COVID-19 cases among the fully vaccinated (“breakthrough infections”) is reported weekly since 21. July 2021 and was 16.9% at that time among patients of 60 years and older [[2] ]. This proportion is increasing week by week and was 58.9% on 27. October 2021 (Figure 1) providing clear evidence of the increasing relevance of the fully vaccinated as a possible source of transmission.