14 ms·

Steve Simon announces WTA’s decision to suspend tournaments in China

166 points by alanwong 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dmitrygr 5y ago
This takes some serious balls and I tip my hat to the organization! Let's see what China does to force them to reconsider
- Loic 5y ago
  Maybe recognized that women are not objects to be used and abused by people with money and authority. This is sadly something you find everywhere in this world, but at least, in some countries, women can hope to get the justice to investigate fairly. Being a woman in this world is not easy.
  - vadfa 5y ago
    Women also have advantages in some other regards. I think it overall evens out.
  - necovek 5y ago
    That's definitely true for women around the world (including in China). But while "silencing" is happening throughout the world for victims of sexual crimes (and we should work to stop this), what's happening to Peng is probably unrelated to the type of crime, but rather about who the perpetrator was (a highly-ranked CCP official). She'd likely see the same fate if she talked about witnessing him do any other crime: it's most telling that not even World-known public figures like Peng can be considered safe from such intimidation.
    - toyg 5y ago
      Reaction to a scandal is one of those things where you really see the difference between a democracy, imperfect as it might be, and a tyrannical regime. In democracy, scandal brings disgrace and resignations; the office-holder has demonstrated to be morally unfit and lost his right to lead. In tyranny, you get silence and threats; the boss rules because he is the boss, not because of any moral superiority recognised by the population.
      - burntbridge 5y ago
        I didn't see any of that happen when Trump was in power or is that an aberration.
        ngcc_hk 5y ago
        Try it if anyone other than trump. He is quite unusual. But any others. The communist is on the other hand … could she be the exception not coming out as the bad ladies to apology, to be suicide or what.
        toyg 5y ago
        There was an official impeachment process. It didn't complete, but it was started iirc; I expect that, had Trump won another mandate on an even slighter majority, we would have heard much more about it. Also there were a lot of active reactions, official and unofficial, which were widely reported (civil servants withdrawing information, leaking all sorts of stories to the press, scrambling to correct his actions, etc etc). Scandals can be survived even in democracy, for sure (Dick Cheney shot a man, Ted Kennedy killed a woman, etc etc), but the accused has to work hard for it. And you could say Trump didn't really survive them, since he was voted out at the first chance.
tibbydudeza 5y ago
Kudos to them.
shmde 5y ago
They are going to lose 1/3 of revenue. Now NBA and Xohn Xhina on the other hand.
- deltaci 5y ago
  It's revenue already lost. No tournament was happening since October 2020 already. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2020/07/23/wta-to-cancel-all-events-in-china-for-remainder-of-2020-including-tour-finals/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2020/07/23/wta-to-c...
  - ErikVandeWater 5y ago
    Then when China eases Covid restrictions they'll quietly add China back to the schedule like nothing happened.
    - necovek 5y ago
      Unfortunately, "China" holds grudges (in quotes, because I suspect it might not even be the government, but different officials wanting to appear as good citizens to the government, and definitely not Chinese people), so it won't be that easy: Simon will likely need to step down (though he's kinda being diplomatic in only "wanting answers", not putting particular blame on anyone, but he's still pretty adamant). Witness NBA-Houston Rockets case which caused Houston Rockets games to be blacked out for 15 months even though Morey moved on from Houston late in 2020 after tweeting in support of Hong Kong protests early in the year. What did CCTV do? Ban 76ers NBA games who are the current employer for Morey.
- Aunche 5y ago
  The difference is that that the WTA actually has leverage on China because China loses legitimacy in sports from this decision. No Chinese woman can ever be the best tennis player anymore. The NBA and John Cena actually have negative leverage on China. Both are purely American exports, so getting them banned in China only serves to widen the trade imbalance. China would love to find an excuse to do so.
reunification 5y ago
As a Chinese-American residing in the US, I really have to smile when white people think they can "stick it" to China. Westerners, in particular white people, are threatened by Asian faces gaining power in the Far East, and so they demonize my country and countrymen and make up ridiculous stories about how much of a scary Orwellian hellhole China is. And of course they indulge in their white savior narrative and try to portray themselves as sooo much better than China. They are not so noble. If Westerners think they can keep goading my country one day they just might regret it. I used to think that China should continue being pacifist (not waging war) but I think it is now necessary given the rising hostility from the USA and other white/white-adjacent nations that are threatened by Chinese/Asian dominance. Given the rising tensions I wonder if the party leadership should just say "f it" and do a rapid reunification Taiwan as soon as possible and risk the economic damage. They have the nukes, afterall.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jarym 5y ago
  I’m not white and I don’t believe it’s right that a woman should be politically silenced for speaking out about sexual abuse she encountered. Perhaps not everything is about ‘sticking it’ to your homeland.
  - sysOpOpPERAND 5y ago
    agreed. it's wild how fast a potential operative jumps on this thread and gets hostile about people being upset over human rights violations. human rights are not supposed to be just a "westerner" thing, it's human rights not western rights. no person should be treated as subhuman. all people deserve a chance at being free no matter what nation they live in. and if a organization decides they don't want to support a country because of human rights violations, then good. i support that organization for being on the right side of history.
    - Nemrod67 5y ago
hker 5y ago
Both Billie Jean King, the founder of WTA, and Novak Djokovic support WTA’s announcement [1]. “I applaud Steve Simon and the WTA leadership for taking a strong stand on defending human rights in China and around the world,” said Billie Jean King. “The WTA is on the right side of history in supporting our players. This is another reason why women’s tennis is the leader in women’s sports.” Novak Djokovic, World No 1 and cofounder of the Professional Tennis Players Association, said he fully supported the WTA’s stance, and everyone including the Professional Tennis Players Association (PTPA) and the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) was “asking for clarity on what is going on”. “We don’t have enough information and I think it’s a very bold, very courageous stance from WTA,” he told reporters. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/01/wta-suspends-tournaments-china-peng-shuai-tennis https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/01/wta-suspends-t... Joe Pompliano thinks the WTA will lose 1/3 of their revenue [2]. [2]: https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1466142522628059144 https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1466142522628059144
- ekanes 5y ago
  They might also gain NEW fans and revenue from people impressed and intrigued by this bold move.
  - Calamitous 5y ago
    I have zero interest in sports of any kind, but this has made me wonder if there’s some way I can support this.
- maccolgan 5y ago
  Is it just me or I don't see the correlation between WTA and human rights? Do they have a horse in this race?
  - hker 5y ago
    Even IOC calls the Peng Shuai situation ‘humanitarian matters’ that they would proceed with “quiet diplomacy” [1]. Short of calling this a hostage situation, this is definitely not normal. [1]: https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-statement-on-the-situation-of-peng-shuai https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-statement-on-the-situation... IOC is the only entity outside China which contacted Peng Shuai, whose external communication is under heavy control by China, so it may be harder for others to see what is going on. Also, WTA is calling for an investigation into a #MeToo, which arguably falls under human rights.
dadarecit 5y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- sofixa 5y ago
  Hey now, no need to be racist/xenophobic about it. The Chinese government is a terrible regime that commits many atrocities. But China has more than a billion people, most of whom do nothing morally wrong beside being complicit to the regime's crimes by inaction. And as we've seen time and again, that's just what regular people do and will do, as long as their lives aren't getting worse ( e.g. Nazi Germany). Most people don't want to risk their lives for noble causes. Blacklisting any Chinese national and company will only sharpen an us vs them divide, which helps the CCP because they paint any criticism of them as criticism of China. Furthermore, most businesses owners on this boards are probably in the US, who has a less than stellar human rights record and supports many regimes with even worse ones. Why pick out China specifically and not Israel or Saudi Arabia? They're all different degrees of terrible. Yes, action against one is still better than no action against any one, but i wonder, why China and not the Saudis? Or Israel, the boycot movement against which is specifically disenfranchised in the US? If the only reason is that they're getting too rich and starting to give the US as a global power a run for their money, your priorities are weird. Anything else, you do you and boycott the one(s) you want, but don't forget the rest. In any case, no need for outright racial hatred of a whole nation.
  - dadarecit 5y ago
    This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopath.
    - 5y ago
q-base 5y ago
Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.
- theplumber 5y ago
  I don't see the chinesse people raising against CCP for this. Not even if the olympics are cancelled. It's well-known that CCP leaders are untouchable in China just like Kim is untouchable in NK. On the other hand if you look a bit to our politics, how affected was Trump by the rape/harrasment accusations? Certainly a big part of population would still vote for him even if the rape would be recorded. I don't defend China or CCP but we should put things in perspective. The most disturbing issue in China I believe is the censorship and persecution of the victims.
  - CamperBob2 5y ago
    Trump was a bit of a special case, for whatever reason. No other presidential candidacy would have made it thirty seconds beyond the "Grab 'em by the pussy" scandal.
    - burntbridge 5y ago
      Seems like in the West we allow ourselves has a lot of "special cases". Maybe too many to bring to mind.
    - necovek 5y ago
      You mean like Clinton/Lewinsky case? I mean sure, being more eloquent and better mannered is all the difference.
      - pupppet 5y ago
        And did you mean the same Clinton/Lewinsky that killed his political career? Meanwhile Trump 2024..
pingpongtn 5y ago
Now they should suspend tournaments in USA for the atrocities that the US administration has done on civilians and innocents in Afghanistan.
lazyeye 5y ago
Wow! Compare this to Hollywood, always telling us how to think and behave but otherwise happy to turn a blind eye on Uighyrs etc if they can sell a few more tickets.
- ecf 5y ago
  If forced to chose a location to do business, I have a feeling Hollywood would opt to pack up and relocate to China. Their leaders don’t see anything other than the number of humans they can get in front of their movies, and 1.4 billion people is a whole lot more than 300ish million.
eddie_gibbon 5y ago
In this matter, I see very little nuance and perspicacity from WTA when dealing with people of a different culture both politically and otherwise. In general WTA setting out terms to nation state is a very absurd situation. If the situation was reversed, American government would care zero bit to appear accountable to any foreign or international organisation. But what is surprising is how WTAs take on this matter is taken as is without necessary skepticism. It is rather clear that WTA don't have first hand information on the subject to take a considered judgement.
- rp1 5y ago
  Rather than make a blanket statement that people should be skeptical, can you provide a concrete reason why one should be skeptical in this case? I think most people here believe that victims of sexual assault should be able to come forward without fear of retribution. I’m curious what your counter argument is.
  - eddie_gibbon 5y ago
    The thing is WTA is claiming to speak at the behest of someone with whom they don't have direct contact. In certain aspects what WTA is doing is crossing boundaries of fair behaviour. Imagine if it was a similar allegation made by an American player, would the WTA would go guns blazing if they didn't have direct communication with the individual. Where there is a need for circumspection, and for nuance , WTA has jumped into the fray speaking of absolutes. Has WTA made good faith attempts like despatching its delegates to China and understand first hand the situation? Frankly if you examine the available details, WTA only has a flimsy argument. And also imagine what could happen next. It could be very much possible for the Chinese to organise a video call for example with Boris Johnson, in which Peng will castigate WTA for invading her privacy, and not respecting her need to stay away from public gaze, etc.. If so then what will WTA do?
    - rp1 5y ago
      The WTA has made numerous attempts to contact Peng, and notified the government that the WTA would pull out of China unless they could talk to her and be assured of her freedom. If your argument is predicated on the WTA not making an effort to contact Peng, then you’re misinformed and just wrong.

166 points by alanwong 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

This takes some serious balls and I tip my hat to the organization! Let's see what China does to force them to reconsider

Loic 5y ago
Maybe recognized that women are not objects to be used and abused by people with money and authority. This is sadly something you find everywhere in this world, but at least, in some countries, women can hope to get the justice to investigate fairly. Being a woman in this world is not easy.
- vadfa 5y ago
  Women also have advantages in some other regards. I think it overall evens out.
- necovek 5y ago
  That's definitely true for women around the world (including in China). But while "silencing" is happening throughout the world for victims of sexual crimes (and we should work to stop this), what's happening to Peng is probably unrelated to the type of crime, but rather about who the perpetrator was (a highly-ranked CCP official). She'd likely see the same fate if she talked about witnessing him do any other crime: it's most telling that not even World-known public figures like Peng can be considered safe from such intimidation.
  - toyg 5y ago
    Reaction to a scandal is one of those things where you really see the difference between a democracy, imperfect as it might be, and a tyrannical regime. In democracy, scandal brings disgrace and resignations; the office-holder has demonstrated to be morally unfit and lost his right to lead. In tyranny, you get silence and threats; the boss rules because he is the boss, not because of any moral superiority recognised by the population.
    - burntbridge 5y ago
      I didn't see any of that happen when Trump was in power or is that an aberration.
      - ngcc_hk 5y ago
        Try it if anyone other than trump. He is quite unusual. But any others. The communist is on the other hand … could she be the exception not coming out as the bad ladies to apology, to be suicide or what.
      - toyg 5y ago
        There was an official impeachment process. It didn't complete, but it was started iirc; I expect that, had Trump won another mandate on an even slighter majority, we would have heard much more about it. Also there were a lot of active reactions, official and unofficial, which were widely reported (civil servants withdrawing information, leaking all sorts of stories to the press, scrambling to correct his actions, etc etc). Scandals can be survived even in democracy, for sure (Dick Cheney shot a man, Ted Kennedy killed a woman, etc etc), but the accused has to work hard for it. And you could say Trump didn't really survive them, since he was voted out at the first chance.

tibbydudeza 5y ago

Kudos to them.

shmde 5y ago

They are going to lose 1/3 of revenue. Now NBA and Xohn Xhina on the other hand.

deltaci 5y ago
It's revenue already lost. No tournament was happening since October 2020 already. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2020/07/23/wta-to-cancel-all-events-in-china-for-remainder-of-2020-including-tour-finals/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/adamzagoria/2020/07/23/wta-to-c...
- ErikVandeWater 5y ago
  Then when China eases Covid restrictions they'll quietly add China back to the schedule like nothing happened.
  - necovek 5y ago
    Unfortunately, "China" holds grudges (in quotes, because I suspect it might not even be the government, but different officials wanting to appear as good citizens to the government, and definitely not Chinese people), so it won't be that easy: Simon will likely need to step down (though he's kinda being diplomatic in only "wanting answers", not putting particular blame on anyone, but he's still pretty adamant). Witness NBA-Houston Rockets case which caused Houston Rockets games to be blacked out for 15 months even though Morey moved on from Houston late in 2020 after tweeting in support of Hong Kong protests early in the year. What did CCTV do? Ban 76ers NBA games who are the current employer for Morey.
Aunche 5y ago
The difference is that that the WTA actually has leverage on China because China loses legitimacy in sports from this decision. No Chinese woman can ever be the best tennis player anymore. The NBA and John Cena actually have negative leverage on China. Both are purely American exports, so getting them banned in China only serves to widen the trade imbalance. China would love to find an excuse to do so.

reunification 5y ago

As a Chinese-American residing in the US, I really have to smile when white people think they can "stick it" to China. Westerners, in particular white people, are threatened by Asian faces gaining power in the Far East, and so they demonize my country and countrymen and make up ridiculous stories about how much of a scary Orwellian hellhole China is. And of course they indulge in their white savior narrative and try to portray themselves as sooo much better than China. They are not so noble. If Westerners think they can keep goading my country one day they just might regret it. I used to think that China should continue being pacifist (not waging war) but I think it is now necessary given the rising hostility from the USA and other white/white-adjacent nations that are threatened by Chinese/Asian dominance. Given the rising tensions I wonder if the party leadership should just say "f it" and do a rapid reunification Taiwan as soon as possible and risk the economic damage. They have the nukes, afterall.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jarym 5y ago
I’m not white and I don’t believe it’s right that a woman should be politically silenced for speaking out about sexual abuse she encountered. Perhaps not everything is about ‘sticking it’ to your homeland.
- sysOpOpPERAND 5y ago
  agreed. it's wild how fast a potential operative jumps on this thread and gets hostile about people being upset over human rights violations. human rights are not supposed to be just a "westerner" thing, it's human rights not western rights. no person should be treated as subhuman. all people deserve a chance at being free no matter what nation they live in. and if a organization decides they don't want to support a country because of human rights violations, then good. i support that organization for being on the right side of history.
  - Nemrod67 5y ago

hker 5y ago

Both Billie Jean King, the founder of WTA, and Novak Djokovic support WTA’s announcement [1]. “I applaud Steve Simon and the WTA leadership for taking a strong stand on defending human rights in China and around the world,” said Billie Jean King. “The WTA is on the right side of history in supporting our players. This is another reason why women’s tennis is the leader in women’s sports.” Novak Djokovic, World No 1 and cofounder of the Professional Tennis Players Association, said he fully supported the WTA’s stance, and everyone including the Professional Tennis Players Association (PTPA) and the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) was “asking for clarity on what is going on”. “We don’t have enough information and I think it’s a very bold, very courageous stance from WTA,” he told reporters. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/01/wta-suspends-tournaments-china-peng-shuai-tennis https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/dec/01/wta-suspends-t... Joe Pompliano thinks the WTA will lose 1/3 of their revenue [2]. [2]: https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1466142522628059144 https://twitter.com/JoePompliano/status/1466142522628059144

ekanes 5y ago
They might also gain NEW fans and revenue from people impressed and intrigued by this bold move.
- Calamitous 5y ago
  I have zero interest in sports of any kind, but this has made me wonder if there’s some way I can support this.
maccolgan 5y ago
Is it just me or I don't see the correlation between WTA and human rights? Do they have a horse in this race?
- hker 5y ago
  Even IOC calls the Peng Shuai situation ‘humanitarian matters’ that they would proceed with “quiet diplomacy” [1]. Short of calling this a hostage situation, this is definitely not normal. [1]: https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-statement-on-the-situation-of-peng-shuai https://olympics.com/ioc/news/ioc-statement-on-the-situation... IOC is the only entity outside China which contacted Peng Shuai, whose external communication is under heavy control by China, so it may be harder for others to see what is going on. Also, WTA is calling for an investigation into a #MeToo, which arguably falls under human rights.

dadarecit 5y ago

[flagged]

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sofixa 5y ago
Hey now, no need to be racist/xenophobic about it. The Chinese government is a terrible regime that commits many atrocities. But China has more than a billion people, most of whom do nothing morally wrong beside being complicit to the regime's crimes by inaction. And as we've seen time and again, that's just what regular people do and will do, as long as their lives aren't getting worse ( e.g. Nazi Germany). Most people don't want to risk their lives for noble causes. Blacklisting any Chinese national and company will only sharpen an us vs them divide, which helps the CCP because they paint any criticism of them as criticism of China. Furthermore, most businesses owners on this boards are probably in the US, who has a less than stellar human rights record and supports many regimes with even worse ones. Why pick out China specifically and not Israel or Saudi Arabia? They're all different degrees of terrible. Yes, action against one is still better than no action against any one, but i wonder, why China and not the Saudis? Or Israel, the boycot movement against which is specifically disenfranchised in the US? If the only reason is that they're getting too rich and starting to give the US as a global power a run for their money, your priorities are weird. Anything else, you do you and boycott the one(s) you want, but don't forget the rest. In any case, no need for outright racial hatred of a whole nation.
- dadarecit 5y ago
  This isn’t about racism or xenophobia. This about collectively applying pressure on China, and, more importantly, standing by your ideals. We don’t conduct business with corrupt organizations, and by definition any Chinese company is an organization that is tightly tied to one of worst, scariest regimes that the world ever saw. And remember - it’s never “just business”, not unless you’re a completely corrupt psychopath.
  - 5y ago

q-base 5y ago

Kudos! As oblivious bystander and no real tennis-knowledge apart from how the game is played, how much pressure will this put on China? How much weight does WTA carry? It will no doubt cause some media coverage no matter the outcome.

theplumber 5y ago
I don't see the chinesse people raising against CCP for this. Not even if the olympics are cancelled. It's well-known that CCP leaders are untouchable in China just like Kim is untouchable in NK. On the other hand if you look a bit to our politics, how affected was Trump by the rape/harrasment accusations? Certainly a big part of population would still vote for him even if the rape would be recorded. I don't defend China or CCP but we should put things in perspective. The most disturbing issue in China I believe is the censorship and persecution of the victims.
- CamperBob2 5y ago
  Trump was a bit of a special case, for whatever reason. No other presidential candidacy would have made it thirty seconds beyond the "Grab 'em by the pussy" scandal.
  - burntbridge 5y ago
    Seems like in the West we allow ourselves has a lot of "special cases". Maybe too many to bring to mind.
  - necovek 5y ago
    You mean like Clinton/Lewinsky case? I mean sure, being more eloquent and better mannered is all the difference.
    - pupppet 5y ago
      And did you mean the same Clinton/Lewinsky that killed his political career? Meanwhile Trump 2024..

pingpongtn 5y ago

Now they should suspend tournaments in USA for the atrocities that the US administration has done on civilians and innocents in Afghanistan.

lazyeye 5y ago

Wow! Compare this to Hollywood, always telling us how to think and behave but otherwise happy to turn a blind eye on Uighyrs etc if they can sell a few more tickets.

ecf 5y ago
If forced to chose a location to do business, I have a feeling Hollywood would opt to pack up and relocate to China. Their leaders don’t see anything other than the number of humans they can get in front of their movies, and 1.4 billion people is a whole lot more than 300ish million.

eddie_gibbon 5y ago

In this matter, I see very little nuance and perspicacity from WTA when dealing with people of a different culture both politically and otherwise. In general WTA setting out terms to nation state is a very absurd situation. If the situation was reversed, American government would care zero bit to appear accountable to any foreign or international organisation. But what is surprising is how WTAs take on this matter is taken as is without necessary skepticism. It is rather clear that WTA don't have first hand information on the subject to take a considered judgement.

rp1 5y ago
Rather than make a blanket statement that people should be skeptical, can you provide a concrete reason why one should be skeptical in this case? I think most people here believe that victims of sexual assault should be able to come forward without fear of retribution. I’m curious what your counter argument is.
- eddie_gibbon 5y ago
  The thing is WTA is claiming to speak at the behest of someone with whom they don't have direct contact. In certain aspects what WTA is doing is crossing boundaries of fair behaviour. Imagine if it was a similar allegation made by an American player, would the WTA would go guns blazing if they didn't have direct communication with the individual. Where there is a need for circumspection, and for nuance , WTA has jumped into the fray speaking of absolutes. Has WTA made good faith attempts like despatching its delegates to China and understand first hand the situation? Frankly if you examine the available details, WTA only has a flimsy argument. And also imagine what could happen next. It could be very much possible for the Chinese to organise a video call for example with Boris Johnson, in which Peng will castigate WTA for invading her privacy, and not respecting her need to stay away from public gaze, etc.. If so then what will WTA do?
  - rp1 5y ago
    The WTA has made numerous attempts to contact Peng, and notified the government that the WTA would pull out of China unless they could talk to her and be assured of her freedom. If your argument is predicated on the WTA not making an effort to contact Peng, then you’re misinformed and just wrong.