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4 day work weeks as a concept real clicked for me when put into ratios. It's a 50% increase in personal time and only a 20% reduction in work hours.

by vitno 5y ago

Tarsul 5y ago
and less than 20% in net income lost (due to income taxes usually being progressive).
- bradjohnson 5y ago
  Why should there be any loss in income?
  - smithza 5y ago
    If you negotiate with management to go from 40 hrs a week to 32 hrs a week, there is usually an expectation you will take a 20% paycut. Parent was saying that since income taxes are tiered, you will likely take a < 20% take-home paycut.
- usefulcat 5y ago
  ..and even less if you consider the value of benefits, like health insurance in the US
- PeterisP 5y ago
  On the other hand, if large parts of your income are tied in near-fixed expenses (e.g. mortgage), then 20% more net income can mean doubling your discretionary spending, and 20% decrease - almost eliminating it.
GordonS 5y ago
I switched to a 4-day work week several years ago (maybe 7 or 8, forget), taking. 20% pay cut. Ot really does feel like such a better work-life balance - as you say, it's a much bigger increase in personal time than it is a decrease in working hours. And I am just as productive as when I worked 5 days a week!
- AnotherGoodName 5y ago
  I did the exact same thing. It was amazing and well worth the 4/5ths pay. My mental health was improved and the only thing that made me eventually leave was that i was offered 3x the pay to work at a FAANG. Startups trying to compete for talent should probably take note of the fact that it took 3x more pay for them to poach staff, not 20% more. I'm not saying you'll get away with paying 3x less but you also won't have to worry about losing staff if you're in the ballpark since the 4 day work week is that valuable to anyone lucky enough to have experienced it.
  - jerrygoyal 5y ago
    where can one find such 4-day work week jobs? Jobs listed on most portals are either full-time or part-time (contract basis)
    - AnotherGoodName 5y ago
      It was a startup and they were flexible when i asked to work for 4/5ths pay for 4/5ths workload. It should probably be a norm but right now it's ad-hoc for companies to support it in order to retain staff.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      A lot of smaller companies are open to it once you've worked there and proven yourself. My current and prior jobs have people in 3-4 day a week roles. But the people in those roles are senior contributors whose value to the company is as much knowledge as it is contributions.
      - nickd2001 5y ago
        I would argue that while this is true, equally sometimes at interview you can be in a good negotiating position too, that's when they've decide they want you. Sometimes being wiling to work for a little bit under what they'd have been willing to pay, sweetens the deal. I mean, don't ask for 4 day week AND top dollar salary at the same time.. unless you're a proven superstar. ;)
city41 5y ago
I recently did a contract where I negotiated a 4 day week. Hard to measure, but my hunch is I still produced about the same level of output. But I was happier, and I also think I was able to make better decisions with the added brain rest.
Arrath 5y ago
One of my most enjoyable stretches at work was when we were allowed to start a project several months ahead of schedule, but only allowed 40hrs/wk until the normally scheduled starting time. My team voted to do 4/10s for the duration, and I argued it through management. We were working out of town so its not as if the longer days cost us time at home or with family, and it allowed for so much more time at home on the longer weekend. It was wonderful.
munificent 5y ago
And a 20% reduction in commute time.
fastball 5y ago
How does that work? If you sleep 8 hours a day and work for 8 hours Mon-Fri, that's: - work: 40hrs - personal: 72hrs - sleep: 56hrs Switching to a four day work week would thus result in a 20% reduction in work hours but only a 10% increase in personal time. I'm going to assume you weren't including non-work hours if they were on "work days", but that seems silly if you have a 9-5 job.
- mywittyname 5y ago
  I don't know about everyone else, but my evenings are far from entirely "personal time." Chores take up most of my evenings, so really I get maybe 1-2hr of personal time on work nights. People with kids who do sports probably get next to zero personal time, beyond maybe vegging out on YT/FB for an hour before bed. Weekends are the only days where I generally "plan" to do things, and even then, Sundays are half reserved for chores like mowing/shopping. Having an additional weekend day that I can plan for hobbies would be amazing. For me, it's honestly akin to doubling my free time.
  - fastball 5y ago
    I think you might be surprised to see how all that "extra" personal time can get absorbed by chores as well, ala Parkinson's law[1]. Chores are personal time unfortunately. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law
acchow 5y ago
Don't you have personal time on weekdays outside of work hours?

4 day work weeks as a concept real clicked for me when put into ratios. It's a 50% increase in personal time and only a 20% reduction in work hours.

by vitno 5y ago

4 day work weeks as a concept real clicked for me when put into ratios. It's a 50% increase in personal time and only a 20% reduction in work hours.

Tarsul 5y ago

and less than 20% in net income lost (due to income taxes usually being progressive).

bradjohnson 5y ago
Why should there be any loss in income?
- smithza 5y ago
  If you negotiate with management to go from 40 hrs a week to 32 hrs a week, there is usually an expectation you will take a 20% paycut. Parent was saying that since income taxes are tiered, you will likely take a < 20% take-home paycut.
usefulcat 5y ago
..and even less if you consider the value of benefits, like health insurance in the US
PeterisP 5y ago
On the other hand, if large parts of your income are tied in near-fixed expenses (e.g. mortgage), then 20% more net income can mean doubling your discretionary spending, and 20% decrease - almost eliminating it.

GordonS 5y ago

I switched to a 4-day work week several years ago (maybe 7 or 8, forget), taking. 20% pay cut. Ot really does feel like such a better work-life balance - as you say, it's a much bigger increase in personal time than it is a decrease in working hours. And I am just as productive as when I worked 5 days a week!

AnotherGoodName 5y ago
I did the exact same thing. It was amazing and well worth the 4/5ths pay. My mental health was improved and the only thing that made me eventually leave was that i was offered 3x the pay to work at a FAANG. Startups trying to compete for talent should probably take note of the fact that it took 3x more pay for them to poach staff, not 20% more. I'm not saying you'll get away with paying 3x less but you also won't have to worry about losing staff if you're in the ballpark since the 4 day work week is that valuable to anyone lucky enough to have experienced it.
- jerrygoyal 5y ago
  where can one find such 4-day work week jobs? Jobs listed on most portals are either full-time or part-time (contract basis)
  - AnotherGoodName 5y ago
    It was a startup and they were flexible when i asked to work for 4/5ths pay for 4/5ths workload. It should probably be a norm but right now it's ad-hoc for companies to support it in order to retain staff.
  - mywittyname 5y ago
    A lot of smaller companies are open to it once you've worked there and proven yourself. My current and prior jobs have people in 3-4 day a week roles. But the people in those roles are senior contributors whose value to the company is as much knowledge as it is contributions.
    - nickd2001 5y ago
      I would argue that while this is true, equally sometimes at interview you can be in a good negotiating position too, that's when they've decide they want you. Sometimes being wiling to work for a little bit under what they'd have been willing to pay, sweetens the deal. I mean, don't ask for 4 day week AND top dollar salary at the same time.. unless you're a proven superstar. ;)

city41 5y ago

I recently did a contract where I negotiated a 4 day week. Hard to measure, but my hunch is I still produced about the same level of output. But I was happier, and I also think I was able to make better decisions with the added brain rest.

Arrath 5y ago

One of my most enjoyable stretches at work was when we were allowed to start a project several months ahead of schedule, but only allowed 40hrs/wk until the normally scheduled starting time. My team voted to do 4/10s for the duration, and I argued it through management. We were working out of town so its not as if the longer days cost us time at home or with family, and it allowed for so much more time at home on the longer weekend. It was wonderful.

munificent 5y ago

And a 20% reduction in commute time.

fastball 5y ago

How does that work? If you sleep 8 hours a day and work for 8 hours Mon-Fri, that's: - work: 40hrs - personal: 72hrs - sleep: 56hrs Switching to a four day work week would thus result in a 20% reduction in work hours but only a 10% increase in personal time. I'm going to assume you weren't including non-work hours if they were on "work days", but that seems silly if you have a 9-5 job.

mywittyname 5y ago
I don't know about everyone else, but my evenings are far from entirely "personal time." Chores take up most of my evenings, so really I get maybe 1-2hr of personal time on work nights. People with kids who do sports probably get next to zero personal time, beyond maybe vegging out on YT/FB for an hour before bed. Weekends are the only days where I generally "plan" to do things, and even then, Sundays are half reserved for chores like mowing/shopping. Having an additional weekend day that I can plan for hobbies would be amazing. For me, it's honestly akin to doubling my free time.
- fastball 5y ago
  I think you might be surprised to see how all that "extra" personal time can get absorbed by chores as well, ala Parkinson's law[1]. Chores are personal time unfortunately. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson%27s_law

acchow 5y ago

Don't you have personal time on weekdays outside of work hours?