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> They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? So condoms, another life-saving invention, should also be

> They are a life saving invention, where did we go as a society that this is suddenly up for debate? So condoms, another life-saving invention, should also be mandated? Should you lose your job if you don't wear your seat belt? (Wearing a seat belt does save others by preventing you from becoming an out-of-control projectile and hitting others.) Should people be prevented from buying unpasteurized milk if they want it? Should smokers be forced to quit with the threat of losing their job or fines or jail time, especially since their smoke affects others? > Did people forget that we eradicated Polio, Tetanus, Hepatitis etc? Those are sterilizing vaccines that survived longer scrutiny than the COVID ones, and the COVID ones are not sterilizing. To be honest, the lies around the COVID vaccines have me now questioning those supposedly safe vaccines. > Where does this sudden influx of people come from that are opposed to this absolute incredible work of science? If they are anything like me, they came because of the lies we were told. Once we figured out they were lies, it was a natural thing to question other things. And the vaccines are not an incredible work of "science." They are an engineering effort. That sounds a lot like Fauci claiming that people who criticize him are criticizing science, as though he defines what science is. Spoiler alert, he does not.

lpcvoid 5y ago
Your examples are, in my opinion, poorly chosen - the only ones of relevance are the seatbelt and the smoking ones, since those actually can harm others. And in these cases, there have been laws put in place to limit other people's exposure to this danger, like seatbelt driving laws and smoke free areas. What lies where there? The only point that I saw until now was the correlation of positive tests within 28 days that another commenter pointed out, but I don't know if that's directly a lie. Can you name one that specially bugs you? I don't see why you refuse to call vaccines a science effort - it is wholly backed by decades of research when you consider the mRNA transport mechanism (and not the payload itself, I agree here).
- ghoward 5y ago
  Lies like telling people they don't need to wear masks at the beginning (or maybe the lie was flipping to saying we did), or the admission that the goalposts were being moved on herd immunity, or the lie that gain of function research was not funded by the NIH. There are plenty of lies. And those are just the ones admitted. Never mind the fact that Fauci and others have stakes in pharma companies. Regarding those laws, as I alluded to, they don't take away people's livelihoods. And they are actual laws, not edicts by a governor. The vaccines may have science behind their creation, but engineering always comes into play when you have to actually create something. The science created the theory, but engineering creates implementations. And I don't trust these implementations the same way I might like theory behind a programming concept but not trust implementations. Like in cryptography.

lpcvoid 5y ago

Your examples are, in my opinion, poorly chosen - the only ones of relevance are the seatbelt and the smoking ones, since those actually can harm others. And in these cases, there have been laws put in place to limit other people's exposure to this danger, like seatbelt driving laws and smoke free areas. What lies where there? The only point that I saw until now was the correlation of positive tests within 28 days that another commenter pointed out, but I don't know if that's directly a lie. Can you name one that specially bugs you? I don't see why you refuse to call vaccines a science effort - it is wholly backed by decades of research when you consider the mRNA transport mechanism (and not the payload itself, I agree here).

ghoward 5y ago
Lies like telling people they don't need to wear masks at the beginning (or maybe the lie was flipping to saying we did), or the admission that the goalposts were being moved on herd immunity, or the lie that gain of function research was not funded by the NIH. There are plenty of lies. And those are just the ones admitted. Never mind the fact that Fauci and others have stakes in pharma companies. Regarding those laws, as I alluded to, they don't take away people's livelihoods. And they are actual laws, not edicts by a governor. The vaccines may have science behind their creation, but engineering always comes into play when you have to actually create something. The science created the theory, but engineering creates implementations. And I don't trust these implementations the same way I might like theory behind a programming concept but not trust implementations. Like in cryptography.