4 ms·

Coercion is force. Being told to vaccinate or get fired is not a choice it is coercion.

by tastyfreeze 5y ago

cmh89 5y ago
Is being told to wear clothes or get fired coercion? Do you find that acceptable?
- tastyfreeze 5y ago
  Being told to wear clothes or get fired does not require that I get an injection that can cause harm to me. These two things are not equal.
  - cmh89 5y ago
    I was just establishing that you don't have a philosophical problem with an Authority using coercion to achieve a goal. Vaccines are safe and effective so I wont get into what conspiracy theories you believe about the COVID-19 vaccine. Most importantly, vaccines have been mandated by the government in different settings for years. I'm sure if you went to college at a public school, you had to certain vaccines. I know I did.
    - tastyfreeze 5y ago
      In general I will rebel against any authority that claims to know what is better for me than I do. Nobody is my master. That is what our Constitution protects. My individual right to do whatever the hell I want to as long as it doesn't inhibit other people from doing the same. That doesn't mean I would not comply just for the sake of it. If something is requested of me I will weigh the risks and benefits for myself and my family and make a decision that is best for me. Despite what the media and elected/appointed officials are telling you the SARS-CoV2 vaccine is not 100% safe[1] or effective[2]. The authority to mandate vaccines resides with states not the federal government. The SCOTUS has upheld this authority in Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The federal government has absolutely zero authority to mandate vaccination in any capacity. Yes, I did get vaccinations that were mandated by my state to attend public school. All of them were for diseases that are much more destructive and deadly than SARS-CoV2. In my case the vaccines required by my state were diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...
      - handrous 5y ago
        > Despite what the media and elected/appointed officials are telling you the SARS-CoV2 vaccine is not 100% safe[1] or effective[2]. Who the fuck's been saying either of those things? None of the mainstream sources I've seen, certainly. Usually, for the efficacy angle, they're emphasizing that it's not 100% effective, and that's part of why it's important that more people get vaccinated and that vaccinated people continue to take precautions.
        cmh89 5y ago
        My thought is that anti-science folks are telling each other that the media and scientists are saying that mainly because the evidence that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective is overwhelming. They need to move the goal post to "100%".
kelnos 5y ago
Yes, and coercion is a tool that governments use all the time in order to keep selfish people from trampling over the safety and well-being off their neighbors. Vaccination perfectly fits that bill.
- tastyfreeze 5y ago
  The SARS-CoV2 vaccine does not provide any meaningful reduction in the spread of the virus. At best it provides a reduction in severity of symptoms for an individual infection. So, your argument that forced injection is justified is null based on vaccine effect alone. Current attempts at coercing employees to vaccinate also do not take into account naturally acquired immunity that is stronger than any vaccine provides. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...

Coercion is force. Being told to vaccinate or get fired is not a choice it is coercion.

cmh89 5y ago

Is being told to wear clothes or get fired coercion? Do you find that acceptable?

tastyfreeze 5y ago
Being told to wear clothes or get fired does not require that I get an injection that can cause harm to me. These two things are not equal.
- cmh89 5y ago
  I was just establishing that you don't have a philosophical problem with an Authority using coercion to achieve a goal. Vaccines are safe and effective so I wont get into what conspiracy theories you believe about the COVID-19 vaccine. Most importantly, vaccines have been mandated by the government in different settings for years. I'm sure if you went to college at a public school, you had to certain vaccines. I know I did.
  - tastyfreeze 5y ago
    In general I will rebel against any authority that claims to know what is better for me than I do. Nobody is my master. That is what our Constitution protects. My individual right to do whatever the hell I want to as long as it doesn't inhibit other people from doing the same. That doesn't mean I would not comply just for the sake of it. If something is requested of me I will weigh the risks and benefits for myself and my family and make a decision that is best for me. Despite what the media and elected/appointed officials are telling you the SARS-CoV2 vaccine is not 100% safe[1] or effective[2]. The authority to mandate vaccines resides with states not the federal government. The SCOTUS has upheld this authority in Jacobson v. Massachusetts. The federal government has absolutely zero authority to mandate vaccination in any capacity. Yes, I did get vaccinations that were mandated by my state to attend public school. All of them were for diseases that are much more destructive and deadly than SARS-CoV2. In my case the vaccines required by my state were diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, measles, mumps, and rubella. [1] https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... [2] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...
    - handrous 5y ago
      > Despite what the media and elected/appointed officials are telling you the SARS-CoV2 vaccine is not 100% safe[1] or effective[2]. Who the fuck's been saying either of those things? None of the mainstream sources I've seen, certainly. Usually, for the efficacy angle, they're emphasizing that it's not 100% effective, and that's part of why it's important that more people get vaccinated and that vaccinated people continue to take precautions.
      - cmh89 5y ago
        My thought is that anti-science folks are telling each other that the media and scientists are saying that mainly because the evidence that the COVID-19 vaccine is safe and effective is overwhelming. They need to move the goal post to "100%".

kelnos 5y ago

Yes, and coercion is a tool that governments use all the time in order to keep selfish people from trampling over the safety and well-being off their neighbors. Vaccination perfectly fits that bill.

tastyfreeze 5y ago
The SARS-CoV2 vaccine does not provide any meaningful reduction in the spread of the virus. At best it provides a reduction in severity of symptoms for an individual infection. So, your argument that forced injection is justified is null based on vaccine effect alone. Current attempts at coercing employees to vaccinate also do not take into account naturally acquired immunity that is stronger than any vaccine provides. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00690-3/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3...