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You can agree that its within the federal authority to mandate vaccines, but it really should be a decision made and explicitly endorsed by elected representati

by kitd 5y ago

You can agree that its within the federal authority to mandate vaccines, but it really should be a decision made and explicitly endorsed by elected representatives rather than some agency (Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services) that I have never heard of until now and whose head is appointed by one person. If the CMS does it, it is a public health decision. Doing it in Congress makes it a political decision. IMO, the better route is that the CMS issues the mandate, but that Congress ratifies it. Ie, they have to provide a clear reason why the public health decision should be overruled.

bko 5y ago
I disagree. It is a political decision to force 2 million Americans to get a vaccine that they don't want under threat of not being allowed to work in their profession. If you disagree with the decision at least you can vote the bastards out. You're acting like its a trivial procedural matter. These people obviously feel very strongly about it since they're under immense pressure everywhere to get it and they still refuse. Or they may have other reservations, but to dismiss that and just have some nameless faceless un-elected organization intrude in their lives in such a meaningful way is really gross
- avs733 5y ago
  congress could have acted here, they could still act. they didn't. Not doing something is a choice when it occurs in reaction to someone else doing something. Whether it is a 'trivial' procedural matter simply isn't affected by people's strongly held beliefs Strongly held beliefs don't exempt you from seat belt laws, from tax rules, or from any other law unless congress doing the thing congress is designed to do allows for it. It shouldn't. CMS isn't unelected...it is an arm of the executive branch headed by the, elected, president and run by someone confirmed by the elected senate. It is given the authority to make rules in specific areas by the elected congress. Your entire thread or argument is predicated on a false assumption...
- wayoutthere 5y ago
  This is absolute horseshit. Government regulation of public health during a pandemic is absolutely its role. We have required a great number of vaccines for the last 100 years. The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. Anti-vaxxing was a fringe position that nobody took seriously before Covid. The only reason this virus is remotely political is because we had a demagogue in the president’s office who likes to force people into contrarian positions because it strokes his ego. So if people want to stay home from work because their politics don’t allow them to do the job, that’s not my problem.
  - ghoward 5y ago
    > The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. "Most-tested" does not imply "best-tested" or even "well-tested." See, for example, how code coverage for tests can be misleading.
  - dang 5y ago
    Hey, would you please not post flamewar comments like this to HN—regardless of how right you are or feel you are? It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and your post here is a noticeable step down in discussion quality. Several steps actually. We've had to ask you about this more than once before. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
    - wayoutthere 5y ago
      Maybe the first line? But the rest of the comment seems fine…
- throwaway4220 5y ago
  If fewer people dying/getting sick is a political goal, then more people dying/getting sick so that the current administration gets voted out can also be a political goal. I'm not a fan of the situation, but you're acting like it's forced sterilization. It's just a vaccine with a very safe profile. For God's sake, all healthcare workers including the cleaning staff have to get flu shots and show their immunizations every year, or they can't work. Even as a college student I had to get a meningitis shot.
  - CollinEMac 5y ago
    >For God's sake, all healthcare workers including the cleaning staff have to get flu shots and show their immunizations every year, or they can't work. Even as a college student I had to get a meningitis shot. The difference is that those examples aren't mandated by the federal government (as far as I know). I think most people are fine with companies and universities requiring people to be vaccinated.
  - Notanothertoo 5y ago
    It's a 'new' tech with a lot of shady political hand waving that impacts your body. Like redefining vaccine, a rushed testing process and... oh yea the feds waived all legal liabilities for the private entities that developed it. I think given the context that if your under 65 you are more likely to have medical complications driving to the grocery store its a pretty understandable perspective. Also the mandate has no exception for natural immunityI. It is I had it and no symptoms of it except I couldn't taste anything, given above, I why would I get a vaccine.

by kitd 5y ago

bko 5y ago

I disagree. It is a political decision to force 2 million Americans to get a vaccine that they don't want under threat of not being allowed to work in their profession. If you disagree with the decision at least you can vote the bastards out. You're acting like its a trivial procedural matter. These people obviously feel very strongly about it since they're under immense pressure everywhere to get it and they still refuse. Or they may have other reservations, but to dismiss that and just have some nameless faceless un-elected organization intrude in their lives in such a meaningful way is really gross

avs733 5y ago
congress could have acted here, they could still act. they didn't. Not doing something is a choice when it occurs in reaction to someone else doing something. Whether it is a 'trivial' procedural matter simply isn't affected by people's strongly held beliefs Strongly held beliefs don't exempt you from seat belt laws, from tax rules, or from any other law unless congress doing the thing congress is designed to do allows for it. It shouldn't. CMS isn't unelected...it is an arm of the executive branch headed by the, elected, president and run by someone confirmed by the elected senate. It is given the authority to make rules in specific areas by the elected congress. Your entire thread or argument is predicated on a false assumption...
wayoutthere 5y ago
This is absolute horseshit. Government regulation of public health during a pandemic is absolutely its role. We have required a great number of vaccines for the last 100 years. The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. Anti-vaxxing was a fringe position that nobody took seriously before Covid. The only reason this virus is remotely political is because we had a demagogue in the president’s office who likes to force people into contrarian positions because it strokes his ego. So if people want to stay home from work because their politics don’t allow them to do the job, that’s not my problem.
- ghoward 5y ago
  > The coronavirus vaccines are some of the most-tested out there. "Most-tested" does not imply "best-tested" or even "well-tested." See, for example, how code coverage for tests can be misleading.
- dang 5y ago
  Hey, would you please not post flamewar comments like this to HN—regardless of how right you are or feel you are? It's not what this site is for, it destroys what it is for, and your post here is a noticeable step down in discussion quality. Several steps actually. We've had to ask you about this more than once before. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
  - wayoutthere 5y ago
    Maybe the first line? But the rest of the comment seems fine…
throwaway4220 5y ago
If fewer people dying/getting sick is a political goal, then more people dying/getting sick so that the current administration gets voted out can also be a political goal. I'm not a fan of the situation, but you're acting like it's forced sterilization. It's just a vaccine with a very safe profile. For God's sake, all healthcare workers including the cleaning staff have to get flu shots and show their immunizations every year, or they can't work. Even as a college student I had to get a meningitis shot.
- CollinEMac 5y ago
  >For God's sake, all healthcare workers including the cleaning staff have to get flu shots and show their immunizations every year, or they can't work. Even as a college student I had to get a meningitis shot. The difference is that those examples aren't mandated by the federal government (as far as I know). I think most people are fine with companies and universities requiring people to be vaccinated.
- Notanothertoo 5y ago
  It's a 'new' tech with a lot of shady political hand waving that impacts your body. Like redefining vaccine, a rushed testing process and... oh yea the feds waived all legal liabilities for the private entities that developed it. I think given the context that if your under 65 you are more likely to have medical complications driving to the grocery store its a pretty understandable perspective. Also the mandate has no exception for natural immunityI. It is I had it and no symptoms of it except I couldn't taste anything, given above, I why would I get a vaccine.