9 ms·

Study links high cholesterol, cardiovascular disease to plastics

143 points by rustoo 5y ago

elevaet 5y ago
Good to see this study coming out. There's surprisingly little research like this considering how ubiquitous pthalates and plastics are in our food/drink and physical environments. In the late noughties everyone switched off BPA to other plastics that, as far as I can tell, are just less studied.
- DoingIsLearning 5y ago
  The average consumer also needs to be aware that the bar for a 'new' substance is actually fairly low depending on the country's regulations. Very often they just have to prove that the substance is not bio-toxic, which roughly translates to "we injected X into the subdermy or blood stream of 20x bunnies and none of them died".
- giantg2 5y ago
  There are some studies that show the replacements are even more potent. https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/are-bpa-substitutes-any-safer-bpa https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/are-bpa-substitutes-any-s...
- Workaccount2 5y ago
  BPA is near omnipresent still. Those laser printed receipts that virtually every business hands you when you buy anything, are dusted with BPA to help the print develop.
  - sva_ 5y ago
    > Those laser printed receipts that virtually every business hands you when you buy anything, are dusted with BPA to help the print develop. Not in the EU anymore, as of 2nd January of 2020[0]: > As of the 2nd of January 2020, thermal paper (commonly used to make till receipts) with a Bisphenol A (BPA) concentration equal to or higher than 0.02% can no longer be sold in Europe, effectively banning its use. I'm hoping that they're not just switching to BPB/BPF/BPS etc. [0] https://planetark.org/newsroom/archive/4892 https://planetark.org/newsroom/archive/4892
    - esyir 5y ago
      Unfortunately, I'd eager that they're doing exactly that. >BPS in thermal paper The receipts we receive when we buy groceries, prescriptions, gas, clothing, restaurant meals, and much more are generally printed on thermal paper coated with either Bisphenol-A (BPA) or its chemical cousin Bisphenol-S (BPS)
  - Tagbert 5y ago
    To be clear on terminology, those receipts are thermal prints. They use a heated print element and paper that turns dark where heated. BTW these should never be placed in with other paper for recycling as the chemicals in the thermal paper will contaminate the rest of the paper.
    - monetus 5y ago
      Thank you for that recycling tidbit; why that isn't listed anywhere in my local recycling program, I'm not sure.
timw4mail 5y ago
Everytime I've seen something about plastics being a health risk, it's not the main polymer (eg. PET, LDPE, HDPE, etc.) that's pointed out, it's the plasticizers. Because plasticizers are not chemically bound to the polymer, it does make sense that they are more likely to have a biological effect than the polymers, as the polymer is generally a fairly stable molecule chain. The polymers themselves can degrade, though. Especially with plastic items that have been exposed to the sun for long periods of time, the polymers can break down. I wonder if this degradation could also be a health risk, as many polymers are hydrocarbons, which do have known health risks.
- userbinator 5y ago
  LDPE/HDPE don't need plasticisers. I wonder if this degradation could also be a health risk, as many polymers are hydrocarbons, which do have known health risks. Would you consider wax and vaseline as "health risks? Or mineral oil? Those are basically polyethylene but at much lower molecular weights. The hydrocarbons you're probably thinking of (octane and below) are even lower, but e.g. propane and butane aren't actually particularly toxic.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    > Would you consider wax and vaseline as "health risks? Or mineral oil? I would consider anything we didn't have in our environment until very recently a health risk, simply because it's a form of "testing previously untested inputs in production" Edit: To be clear, in the context of evolution, I would eyeball "very recently" at about 100,000 years.
    - userbinator 5y ago
      Over a century is "very recently"?
      - thghtihadanacct 5y ago
        Relative to the 200,000 to 6 million years we have been in this shape? Yes.
zachaden 5y ago
The masses should have access to this kind of information so that they will be aware of what is happening.
- arbitrage 5y ago
  It's open access, so, here you go. https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP9262 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP9262
- bigyellow 5y ago
  We've known about cholesterol and cardiovascular risks and how to reduce them for decades. The problem isn't access to information, it's false information creating incorrect or purposefully conflicting narratives which confuse and debase science.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    Dietary cholesterol is actually pretty weakly correlated with cardiovascular disease, and yet people have significantly changed their behaviors (for the worse, most likely) in the years since this mistaken science proliferated - the infamous replacement of high-fat diets with high-sugar ones.
    - bigyellow 5y ago
      > Dietary cholesterol is actually pretty weakly correlated with cardiovascular disease This is exactly what I'm talking about - the opposite of what you say is actually true.
      - tsimionescu 5y ago
        You're working on old research. All newer research points to no correlation. Even worse, all attempts to reduce CVD by reducing blood cholesterol have completely failed as well, in several large scale clinically controlled trials. Here is an example of such a modern study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/ > For years, dietary cholesterol was implicated in increasing blood cholesterol levels leading to the elevated risk of CVD. To date, extensive research did not show evidence to support a role of dietary cholesterol in the development of CVD.
confidantlake 5y ago
Anyone know what I as a consumer what can I do to reduce my risk? Not use plastic water bottles? Not use plastic food containers? Not use plastic knives and forks? Plastic bags? Plastic storage containers?
- CollinEMac 5y ago
  There probably isn't enough research to make any of those claims conclusively yet.
  - hammock 5y ago
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
- hammock 5y ago
  Learn what PP, ABS, PET, HDPE and LDPE are (the safest plastics), how to spot/identify what items are made out of it, and avoid literally everything else plastic that isn't one of these. Everything you mentioned are actually mostly polyethylene (PE), polypropylene or PET with the exception of plastic utensils which are sometimes made from a hard form of polystyrene, and some takeout food containers.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- Tagbert 5y ago
  Besides a general reduction in plastic use, one thing to consider is that plasticizers are more prone to escape the bulk plastic via liquids and under heat. Try to avoid heat and try to use plastics when they will remain dry.
- gremloni 5y ago
  It’s actually easier than you think to mostly cut out plastic from food and drink. If you mostly cook at home— use paper/cloth bags at the grocery store, buy unprocessed foods, get meat, fish, deli, cheese etc paper wrapped, get drinks in aluminum or glass bottles, use only glass to store and drink water with at home. Some plastic use on processed foods is unavoidable but I’m trying to reduce exposure as much as possible. Another thing is to switch out your shampoo, soaps, dish washing liquid etc. for EWG certified products with no pthalates, parabens etc. Also vinegar instead of disinfectants to clean surfaces in the home.
oxymoran 5y ago
Could have figured this out years ago if we didn’t put epidemiological studies on a pedestal. Now excuse me, I have some egg yolks to eat.
hammock 5y ago
One of the widest uses of DCHP is in medicine/hospitals. Edit: DCHP (a phthalate) not DHCP
- faeyanpiraat 5y ago
  Or IT
  - hammock 5y ago
    You are joking from my typo but it is actually true. All those computer cables are heavily impregnated with phthalates and usually sitting in warm areas. Do not put them in your mouth, and wash your hands after touching.
    - matmatmatmat 5y ago
      Goes doubly for the kiddos who seem to love putting everything in their mouth.
- azinman2 5y ago
  What are they used for? My medical building has a prop 65 warning before you enter explicitly calling that out.
  - hammock 5y ago
    Anything that is a flexible tube or cable (including those put inside the body)
clumsysmurf 5y ago
I saw just the other day that microplastics cross the blood brain barrier in mice anyhow. https://newatlas.com/environment/microplastics-blood-brain-barrier/ https://newatlas.com/environment/microplastics-blood-brain-b...

143 points by rustoo 5y ago

Good to see this study coming out. There's surprisingly little research like this considering how ubiquitous pthalates and plastics are in our food/drink and physical environments. In the late noughties everyone switched off BPA to other plastics that, as far as I can tell, are just less studied.

DoingIsLearning 5y ago
The average consumer also needs to be aware that the bar for a 'new' substance is actually fairly low depending on the country's regulations. Very often they just have to prove that the substance is not bio-toxic, which roughly translates to "we injected X into the subdermy or blood stream of 20x bunnies and none of them died".
giantg2 5y ago
There are some studies that show the replacements are even more potent. https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/are-bpa-substitutes-any-safer-bpa https://www.epa.gov/sciencematters/are-bpa-substitutes-any-s...
Workaccount2 5y ago
BPA is near omnipresent still. Those laser printed receipts that virtually every business hands you when you buy anything, are dusted with BPA to help the print develop.
- sva_ 5y ago
  > Those laser printed receipts that virtually every business hands you when you buy anything, are dusted with BPA to help the print develop. Not in the EU anymore, as of 2nd January of 2020[0]: > As of the 2nd of January 2020, thermal paper (commonly used to make till receipts) with a Bisphenol A (BPA) concentration equal to or higher than 0.02% can no longer be sold in Europe, effectively banning its use. I'm hoping that they're not just switching to BPB/BPF/BPS etc. [0] https://planetark.org/newsroom/archive/4892 https://planetark.org/newsroom/archive/4892
  - esyir 5y ago
    Unfortunately, I'd eager that they're doing exactly that. >BPS in thermal paper The receipts we receive when we buy groceries, prescriptions, gas, clothing, restaurant meals, and much more are generally printed on thermal paper coated with either Bisphenol-A (BPA) or its chemical cousin Bisphenol-S (BPS)
- Tagbert 5y ago
  To be clear on terminology, those receipts are thermal prints. They use a heated print element and paper that turns dark where heated. BTW these should never be placed in with other paper for recycling as the chemicals in the thermal paper will contaminate the rest of the paper.
  - monetus 5y ago
    Thank you for that recycling tidbit; why that isn't listed anywhere in my local recycling program, I'm not sure.

timw4mail 5y ago

Everytime I've seen something about plastics being a health risk, it's not the main polymer (eg. PET, LDPE, HDPE, etc.) that's pointed out, it's the plasticizers. Because plasticizers are not chemically bound to the polymer, it does make sense that they are more likely to have a biological effect than the polymers, as the polymer is generally a fairly stable molecule chain. The polymers themselves can degrade, though. Especially with plastic items that have been exposed to the sun for long periods of time, the polymers can break down. I wonder if this degradation could also be a health risk, as many polymers are hydrocarbons, which do have known health risks.

userbinator 5y ago
LDPE/HDPE don't need plasticisers. I wonder if this degradation could also be a health risk, as many polymers are hydrocarbons, which do have known health risks. Would you consider wax and vaseline as "health risks? Or mineral oil? Those are basically polyethylene but at much lower molecular weights. The hydrocarbons you're probably thinking of (octane and below) are even lower, but e.g. propane and butane aren't actually particularly toxic.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  > Would you consider wax and vaseline as "health risks? Or mineral oil? I would consider anything we didn't have in our environment until very recently a health risk, simply because it's a form of "testing previously untested inputs in production" Edit: To be clear, in the context of evolution, I would eyeball "very recently" at about 100,000 years.
  - userbinator 5y ago
    Over a century is "very recently"?
    - thghtihadanacct 5y ago
      Relative to the 200,000 to 6 million years we have been in this shape? Yes.

zachaden 5y ago

The masses should have access to this kind of information so that they will be aware of what is happening.

arbitrage 5y ago
It's open access, so, here you go. https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP9262 https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP9262
bigyellow 5y ago
We've known about cholesterol and cardiovascular risks and how to reduce them for decades. The problem isn't access to information, it's false information creating incorrect or purposefully conflicting narratives which confuse and debase science.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  Dietary cholesterol is actually pretty weakly correlated with cardiovascular disease, and yet people have significantly changed their behaviors (for the worse, most likely) in the years since this mistaken science proliferated - the infamous replacement of high-fat diets with high-sugar ones.
  - bigyellow 5y ago
    > Dietary cholesterol is actually pretty weakly correlated with cardiovascular disease This is exactly what I'm talking about - the opposite of what you say is actually true.
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      You're working on old research. All newer research points to no correlation. Even worse, all attempts to reduce CVD by reducing blood cholesterol have completely failed as well, in several large scale clinically controlled trials. Here is an example of such a modern study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6024687/ > For years, dietary cholesterol was implicated in increasing blood cholesterol levels leading to the elevated risk of CVD. To date, extensive research did not show evidence to support a role of dietary cholesterol in the development of CVD.

confidantlake 5y ago

Anyone know what I as a consumer what can I do to reduce my risk? Not use plastic water bottles? Not use plastic food containers? Not use plastic knives and forks? Plastic bags? Plastic storage containers?

CollinEMac 5y ago
There probably isn't enough research to make any of those claims conclusively yet.
- hammock 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
hammock 5y ago
Learn what PP, ABS, PET, HDPE and LDPE are (the safest plastics), how to spot/identify what items are made out of it, and avoid literally everything else plastic that isn't one of these. Everything you mentioned are actually mostly polyethylene (PE), polypropylene or PET with the exception of plastic utensils which are sometimes made from a hard form of polystyrene, and some takeout food containers.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
Tagbert 5y ago
Besides a general reduction in plastic use, one thing to consider is that plasticizers are more prone to escape the bulk plastic via liquids and under heat. Try to avoid heat and try to use plastics when they will remain dry.
gremloni 5y ago
It’s actually easier than you think to mostly cut out plastic from food and drink. If you mostly cook at home— use paper/cloth bags at the grocery store, buy unprocessed foods, get meat, fish, deli, cheese etc paper wrapped, get drinks in aluminum or glass bottles, use only glass to store and drink water with at home. Some plastic use on processed foods is unavoidable but I’m trying to reduce exposure as much as possible. Another thing is to switch out your shampoo, soaps, dish washing liquid etc. for EWG certified products with no pthalates, parabens etc. Also vinegar instead of disinfectants to clean surfaces in the home.

oxymoran 5y ago

Could have figured this out years ago if we didn’t put epidemiological studies on a pedestal. Now excuse me, I have some egg yolks to eat.

hammock 5y ago

One of the widest uses of DCHP is in medicine/hospitals. Edit: DCHP (a phthalate) not DHCP

faeyanpiraat 5y ago
Or IT
- hammock 5y ago
  You are joking from my typo but it is actually true. All those computer cables are heavily impregnated with phthalates and usually sitting in warm areas. Do not put them in your mouth, and wash your hands after touching.
  - matmatmatmat 5y ago
    Goes doubly for the kiddos who seem to love putting everything in their mouth.
azinman2 5y ago
What are they used for? My medical building has a prop 65 warning before you enter explicitly calling that out.
- hammock 5y ago
  Anything that is a flexible tube or cable (including those put inside the body)

clumsysmurf 5y ago

I saw just the other day that microplastics cross the blood brain barrier in mice anyhow. https://newatlas.com/environment/microplastics-blood-brain-barrier/ https://newatlas.com/environment/microplastics-blood-brain-b...