3 ms·

It's certainly a better metaphor than boot camp. Though, interestingly, in this case the metaphor is accurate even to the misconceptions. This writer thinks t

by pg 18y ago

It's certainly a better metaphor than boot camp. Though, interestingly, in this case the metaphor is accurate even to the misconceptions. This writer thinks that YC's most important role is as a gatekeeper. That's a common misconception about elite universities too. In fact the most valuable thing about going to one is what you learn there, and so it is with YC too, I think. One way to understand where YC's "center of gravity" is would be to measure how I spend my time. If YC's role was simply as a gatekeeper, my job would be done as soon as we'd done interviews to select each new group of startups. Boy would life be easy if that were so! In fact about 98% of the work is still ahead at that point. I tried to explain what we actually do here: http://www.paulgraham.com/ycombinator.html http://www.paulgraham.com/ycombinator.html

sdurkin 18y ago
"They could sing campfire songs in all the classes, as long as admissions still worked the same." (or something to that effect) I tend to believe that the most important part of a university is neither the learning, nor the signaling, but rather the networking. The introductions made through university connections tend to prove invaluable over time, and some of the alumns I've spoken with have the same view of YC.
- pg 18y ago
  In-context version: "It's no coincidence that startups start around universities, because that's where smart people meet. It's not what people learn in classes at MIT and Stanford that has made technology companies spring up around them. They could sing campfire songs in the classes so long as admissions worked the same." (http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html)
  - DaniFong 18y ago
    Don't forget that when you're given some prestigious charge, the human reaction is to try to do something with it. Much of the difference between hackers at MIT and elsewhere may be that at MIT, they're supposed to perform technical wizardry. Elsewhere, there are a lot of people who could do great things, but for some reason or another, don't.
    - furiouslol 18y ago
      Sorry. This was too funny to not post: Meeting someone from Harvard, they will undoubtedly display faux modesty and say something along the lines of, "Oh, I went to school in Boston." I imagine they want me to guess MIT, just so they can say "Harvard" proudly in response, but instead, I say something like, "Hmm. You really look like a Northeastern kind of guy. BU, maybe?" This puts them in their place, and they will scramble away, crying crimson tears all over the floor. More at http://www.radaronline.com/features/2008/07/leveraged_sellout_excerpt_investment_banking_princeton_harva-print.php http://www.radaronline.com/features/2008/07/leveraged_sellou...
    - sdurkin 18y ago
      To whom much is given, much is expected in return. For a lot of people, it certainly adds extra motivation.
      - ivankirigin 18y ago
        With Great Suit Comes Great Responsibility http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34279 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34279
    - aswanson 18y ago
      I always wondered why Princeton does not produce more start ups...no shortage of riches or intelligence in that area. My guess is that the academic climate is centered around pure research...am I far off?
      - DaniFong 18y ago
        You're not too far off. There are two very different populations at Princeton: undergrads and grad students barely recognize each other's existence, much less talk with one another, and therefore don't found with one another. The undergrads are constantly, constantly marauded by recruiters from wall street and consulting firms. Many of the rest are trying to get into med or law school. The populations in the hard sciences, engineering, math, and comp sci are quite small. Most of those are in fields which don't found companies out of undergrad much -- molecular biology, for example. And of the hard sciences, the dominant cultural influence is from foreign students holding international science Olympiad medals. It draws the fire from the notion of founding a startup. The rest are grad students. Some of these do found startups, but they're fewer, and farther from capital, and often quite set on an academic path. Plus, unlike at MIT or Stanford or Berkeley, there is, for some reason, an urgency on the part of the administration to get you graduated by your fifth year. Don't ask me why. Also, it's just not as strong of an engineering school in most of the disciplines or fields that are startuppy. Even within comp sci, there are mostly people studying large systems, and theory, and parallelization, and security, and computer science policy, and compilers, and so on. Not so many in HCI. And since most startups succeed where they can fill a before unarticulated need, that hurts them. Finally, it's a little bit of the product of the admissions department. Many people are admitted based on extracurriculars which look good on paper, but neither stretch one's abilities, nor are particularly novel (if they were, they'd be hard for admissions to understand), nor are particularly technical. Bleeding heart stuff. A lot of the startups that I saw come out of Princeton (which friends got involved in) are either vaguely defined environmental/political websites, or connected to academia in some way. Not to say Princetonians don't have the chops: both Jeff Bezos and Eric Schmidt came from the EECS department.
ivankirigin 18y ago
Another useful part of universities and YC both is what economists call signaling. Going to a good college sends a message to those looking for people who can compete at that level. Some contend that it is the most valuable part of college for the average person. The YC alums are a significantly under appreciated benefit of YC, though people understand why universities and their alumni networks are good.
Mystalic 18y ago
I don't disagree with you that the education's the most important part, especially to the person. The gatekeeping isn't the hard part, but don't underestimate how important it is to the function of a society. Without the university system, we'd probably collapse, even if it is somewhat inefficient. I was trying to bring more to light the trend in how VC is being conducted and get people thinking about how that will affect venture capitalists and especially entrepreneurs. The "gatekeepers" have a defining role in the direction societies take, especially in terms of development.
netcan 18y ago
I don't think it's fair to call it a misconception. It is a claim or maybe even an accusation. One that Universities are are commonly accused of. One that is being extended to YC. Universities might similarly defend against this claim by pointing to the resources spent on educating as opposed to filtering. But I don't think that this is necessarily a good defence. If anything, it points to an institution's internal priorities, not its value to potential students. It seems to me that if YC is consistently successful, it can't avoid becoming a filter in the eyes of investors. This would eventually come to affect applicants' perception. If YC increases a company's chance of attracting investors, this might become the motivation for participation. Investors listen to pitches or even invest because of YC's track record. Startups apply because of investors' perception. Similarly, University applicants often think along the lines of creating an impressive resume. This is partly because it is true (an Oxford degree is better at getting jobs then an unknown one) and partly because people tend to undervalue educational potential of things beforehand. Throw in the fact that top Universities get the power to choose the best applicants & it becomes difficult to tell if they are picking winners, creating them or just in control of some bottleneck. In any case, I think it's a point of interest.
- netcan 18y ago
  Some bait: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/04/secretive-storage-company-dropbox-took-sequoia-funding-in-2007/ http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/04/secretive-storage-compa...

by pg 18y ago

sdurkin 18y ago

"They could sing campfire songs in all the classes, as long as admissions still worked the same." (or something to that effect) I tend to believe that the most important part of a university is neither the learning, nor the signaling, but rather the networking. The introductions made through university connections tend to prove invaluable over time, and some of the alumns I've spoken with have the same view of YC.

pg 18y ago
In-context version: "It's no coincidence that startups start around universities, because that's where smart people meet. It's not what people learn in classes at MIT and Stanford that has made technology companies spring up around them. They could sing campfire songs in the classes so long as admissions worked the same." (http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html http://www.paulgraham.com/start.html)
- DaniFong 18y ago
  Don't forget that when you're given some prestigious charge, the human reaction is to try to do something with it. Much of the difference between hackers at MIT and elsewhere may be that at MIT, they're supposed to perform technical wizardry. Elsewhere, there are a lot of people who could do great things, but for some reason or another, don't.
  - furiouslol 18y ago
    Sorry. This was too funny to not post: Meeting someone from Harvard, they will undoubtedly display faux modesty and say something along the lines of, "Oh, I went to school in Boston." I imagine they want me to guess MIT, just so they can say "Harvard" proudly in response, but instead, I say something like, "Hmm. You really look like a Northeastern kind of guy. BU, maybe?" This puts them in their place, and they will scramble away, crying crimson tears all over the floor. More at http://www.radaronline.com/features/2008/07/leveraged_sellout_excerpt_investment_banking_princeton_harva-print.php http://www.radaronline.com/features/2008/07/leveraged_sellou...
  - sdurkin 18y ago
    To whom much is given, much is expected in return. For a lot of people, it certainly adds extra motivation.
    - ivankirigin 18y ago
      With Great Suit Comes Great Responsibility http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34279 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34279
  - aswanson 18y ago
    I always wondered why Princeton does not produce more start ups...no shortage of riches or intelligence in that area. My guess is that the academic climate is centered around pure research...am I far off?
    - DaniFong 18y ago
      You're not too far off. There are two very different populations at Princeton: undergrads and grad students barely recognize each other's existence, much less talk with one another, and therefore don't found with one another. The undergrads are constantly, constantly marauded by recruiters from wall street and consulting firms. Many of the rest are trying to get into med or law school. The populations in the hard sciences, engineering, math, and comp sci are quite small. Most of those are in fields which don't found companies out of undergrad much -- molecular biology, for example. And of the hard sciences, the dominant cultural influence is from foreign students holding international science Olympiad medals. It draws the fire from the notion of founding a startup. The rest are grad students. Some of these do found startups, but they're fewer, and farther from capital, and often quite set on an academic path. Plus, unlike at MIT or Stanford or Berkeley, there is, for some reason, an urgency on the part of the administration to get you graduated by your fifth year. Don't ask me why. Also, it's just not as strong of an engineering school in most of the disciplines or fields that are startuppy. Even within comp sci, there are mostly people studying large systems, and theory, and parallelization, and security, and computer science policy, and compilers, and so on. Not so many in HCI. And since most startups succeed where they can fill a before unarticulated need, that hurts them. Finally, it's a little bit of the product of the admissions department. Many people are admitted based on extracurriculars which look good on paper, but neither stretch one's abilities, nor are particularly novel (if they were, they'd be hard for admissions to understand), nor are particularly technical. Bleeding heart stuff. A lot of the startups that I saw come out of Princeton (which friends got involved in) are either vaguely defined environmental/political websites, or connected to academia in some way. Not to say Princetonians don't have the chops: both Jeff Bezos and Eric Schmidt came from the EECS department.

ivankirigin 18y ago

Another useful part of universities and YC both is what economists call signaling. Going to a good college sends a message to those looking for people who can compete at that level. Some contend that it is the most valuable part of college for the average person. The YC alums are a significantly under appreciated benefit of YC, though people understand why universities and their alumni networks are good.

Mystalic 18y ago

I don't disagree with you that the education's the most important part, especially to the person. The gatekeeping isn't the hard part, but don't underestimate how important it is to the function of a society. Without the university system, we'd probably collapse, even if it is somewhat inefficient. I was trying to bring more to light the trend in how VC is being conducted and get people thinking about how that will affect venture capitalists and especially entrepreneurs. The "gatekeepers" have a defining role in the direction societies take, especially in terms of development.

netcan 18y ago

I don't think it's fair to call it a misconception. It is a claim or maybe even an accusation. One that Universities are are commonly accused of. One that is being extended to YC. Universities might similarly defend against this claim by pointing to the resources spent on educating as opposed to filtering. But I don't think that this is necessarily a good defence. If anything, it points to an institution's internal priorities, not its value to potential students. It seems to me that if YC is consistently successful, it can't avoid becoming a filter in the eyes of investors. This would eventually come to affect applicants' perception. If YC increases a company's chance of attracting investors, this might become the motivation for participation. Investors listen to pitches or even invest because of YC's track record. Startups apply because of investors' perception. Similarly, University applicants often think along the lines of creating an impressive resume. This is partly because it is true (an Oxford degree is better at getting jobs then an unknown one) and partly because people tend to undervalue educational potential of things beforehand. Throw in the fact that top Universities get the power to choose the best applicants & it becomes difficult to tell if they are picking winners, creating them or just in control of some bottleneck. In any case, I think it's a point of interest.

netcan 18y ago
Some bait: http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/04/secretive-storage-company-dropbox-took-sequoia-funding-in-2007/ http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/09/04/secretive-storage-compa...