4 ms·

In many aspects we've entered a post-scarcity society, to the extent that scarcity has to be invented by things like NFTs. For these people, they might as well

by ljm 5y ago

In many aspects we've entered a post-scarcity society, to the extent that scarcity has to be invented by things like NFTs. For these people, they might as well have found a game breaking bug in the thing we call existence. Of course, it would be nice if we got more of humanity on board with this first, what with the vast majority of the population being in poverty, or worse.

thewarrior 5y ago
How can we be in post scarcity if millions of people are in poverty?
- Karsteski 5y ago
  Perhaps it depends on who the "we" is.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  It's another case of the future not being evenly distributed[0], presumably. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-h...
- axegon_ 5y ago
  Well we have two worlds running in parallel as we stand: Most of North America, Europe and certain parts of Asia and the rest of the world. A large portion of what I refereed to "the rest of the world" is as distant from us as the middle ages. Not even apples to oranges at this point. Sure, you could argue that billions are poured into bridging that gap but the simple truth is that never works. Even if there wasn't an insane amount of corruption involved, that still would not cut it or change much: I had a professor back in the day who summed it up perfectly in one sentence: "No one has gotten out of poverty through charity". Though I absolutely adore Hans Rosling's "Factfullness", somehow I cannot find a way to share his optimism. And in his function as a doctor, I recon even he would have dialed down his optimism if he were alive now and witnessed how COVID was being handled for example.
  - willmw101 5y ago
    >A large portion of what I refereed to "the rest of the world" is as distant from us as the middle ages. Sure, you could argue that billions are poured into bridging that gap but the simple truth is that never works. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-population-in-extreme-poverty?tab=chart&country=Other+high+Income+%28World+Bank%29~South+Asia~East+Asia+and+Pacific~Europe+and+Central+Asia~Sub-Saharan+Africa~Middle+East+and+North+Africa~Latin+America+and+the+Caribbean~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-population-in-ex...
    - axegon_ 5y ago
      > The share of individuals living below the 'International Poverty Line' of 1.90 international-$ per day. 1.90 is absurdly low. That totals to $57 for a 30 day month. That hardly covers just your food and water intake in most areas of the world. If you live in the temperate climate zones where fresh water isn't extremely limited and your menu consists solely of rice and potatoes... Maybe, just maybe. I live in a relatively cheap country with plenty of fresh water around and that would get you 500 grams of rice and 2 liters of mineral water. At 70kg I could hypothetically just survive off of that but only just. Anywhere else where food and water requires transport or significant amounts of processing, you are very much screwed.
      - margalabargala 5y ago
        Indeed, this is why it's called "extreme poverty". Isn't it terrible that despite this situation being as awful as you describe, it still applies to around 10% of all humans?
      - lambdadmitry 5y ago
        Most (all?) people on incomes like that practice subsistence farming and/or natural economy. Also, state pension for many Russians (and Russia usually isn't considered a very poor country) is in the range of $130, which is just about twice higher. Add the fact that private pensions are very rare there, and you can see how thinking that that's "absurdly low" is a pretty privileged position.
arno_v 5y ago
Have you tried to buy a new GPU recently? :P
CPLX 5y ago
Why does everyone act like this is some massive cultural shift or new phenomenon instead of the latest representation of one of humanity’s favorite pastimes. It’s gambling. People have done it for millennia. You invent some system and some arbitrary rules about what’s valuable (the right domino, an ace of hearts, a jpeg of a monkey, a beanie baby) and then some people win some money and some people lose. It’s happened before and it’ll happen again it’s the least surprising thing our culture has ever done. It’s just the superficial details that change every generation or two.

by ljm 5y ago

thewarrior 5y ago

How can we be in post scarcity if millions of people are in poverty?

Karsteski 5y ago
Perhaps it depends on who the "we" is.
EvanAnderson 5y ago
It's another case of the future not being evenly distributed[0], presumably. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-h...
axegon_ 5y ago
Well we have two worlds running in parallel as we stand: Most of North America, Europe and certain parts of Asia and the rest of the world. A large portion of what I refereed to "the rest of the world" is as distant from us as the middle ages. Not even apples to oranges at this point. Sure, you could argue that billions are poured into bridging that gap but the simple truth is that never works. Even if there wasn't an insane amount of corruption involved, that still would not cut it or change much: I had a professor back in the day who summed it up perfectly in one sentence: "No one has gotten out of poverty through charity". Though I absolutely adore Hans Rosling's "Factfullness", somehow I cannot find a way to share his optimism. And in his function as a doctor, I recon even he would have dialed down his optimism if he were alive now and witnessed how COVID was being handled for example.
- willmw101 5y ago
  >A large portion of what I refereed to "the rest of the world" is as distant from us as the middle ages. Sure, you could argue that billions are poured into bridging that gap but the simple truth is that never works. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-population-in-extreme-poverty?tab=chart&country=Other+high+Income+%28World+Bank%29~South+Asia~East+Asia+and+Pacific~Europe+and+Central+Asia~Sub-Saharan+Africa~Middle+East+and+North+Africa~Latin+America+and+the+Caribbean~OWID_WRL https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-of-population-in-ex...
  - axegon_ 5y ago
    > The share of individuals living below the 'International Poverty Line' of 1.90 international-$ per day. 1.90 is absurdly low. That totals to $57 for a 30 day month. That hardly covers just your food and water intake in most areas of the world. If you live in the temperate climate zones where fresh water isn't extremely limited and your menu consists solely of rice and potatoes... Maybe, just maybe. I live in a relatively cheap country with plenty of fresh water around and that would get you 500 grams of rice and 2 liters of mineral water. At 70kg I could hypothetically just survive off of that but only just. Anywhere else where food and water requires transport or significant amounts of processing, you are very much screwed.
    - margalabargala 5y ago
      Indeed, this is why it's called "extreme poverty". Isn't it terrible that despite this situation being as awful as you describe, it still applies to around 10% of all humans?
    - lambdadmitry 5y ago
      Most (all?) people on incomes like that practice subsistence farming and/or natural economy. Also, state pension for many Russians (and Russia usually isn't considered a very poor country) is in the range of $130, which is just about twice higher. Add the fact that private pensions are very rare there, and you can see how thinking that that's "absurdly low" is a pretty privileged position.

arno_v 5y ago

Have you tried to buy a new GPU recently? :P

CPLX 5y ago

Why does everyone act like this is some massive cultural shift or new phenomenon instead of the latest representation of one of humanity’s favorite pastimes. It’s gambling. People have done it for millennia. You invent some system and some arbitrary rules about what’s valuable (the right domino, an ace of hearts, a jpeg of a monkey, a beanie baby) and then some people win some money and some people lose. It’s happened before and it’ll happen again it’s the least surprising thing our culture has ever done. It’s just the superficial details that change every generation or two.